Summoner a new form of summoning in 4.0

**Rover1983** · 07-08-2015 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by Senliten

Annnnd here we go, again.
Don't mind me but imma just pull the bucket of popcorn out and watch this whole circle once again start going around once more.

Ah, what?

I'm not trying to start any argument or what not, I'm simply stating my feelings on pet classes in general. As of late, practically every game that is labeled as a "pet" class, the pets end up being super lackluster in terms of raw damage. They more so end up being just another "DoT" and the player ends up doing a bulk of the damage which befuddles me because a class that is a Pet class, the pets should be doing a lot of damage instead of just some mediocre dot damage. It's kind of logical no? that a pet class, the pets should do a lot no? Sorry, I just played a real pet class in Everquest with the Mage and their pets blow anything and everything away in terms of these iteration of pet classes in mmo's for the past 10 years or so.

**Senliten** · 07-08-2015 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by Rover1983

Ah, what?

I'm not trying to start any argument or what not, I'm simply stating my feelings on pet classes in general. As of late, practically every game that is labeled as a "pet" class, the pets end up being super lackluster in terms of raw damage. They more so end up being just another "DoT" and the player ends up doing a bulk of the damage which befuddles me because a class that is a Pet class, the pets should be doing a lot of damage instead of just some mediocre dot damage. It's kind of logical no? that a pet class, the pets should do a lot no? Sorry, I just played a real pet class in Everquest with the Mage and their pets blow anything and everything away in terms of these iteration of pet classes in mmo's for the past 10 years or so.

Mages only began truly being able to do that sort of thing when the AA system arrived however. Before then it was just sit/stay/guard and OH LOOK MASTER IS GETTING HIT! *ignore commands and run to npc and wail on it like a mindless potato*
Not to mention EQ is more core than compared to XIV which is fairly casual, raiding aside of course. That, and i only bolded the aforementioned because it's been beaten to a dead horse with fairly even more logical reasons for this day and age than back when seeing a earth elemental tank two orcs in crushbone was the most badass thing to see.

If we honestly wanted to go with comparisons on pet classes, SMN is more necro than mage. Yet both mage and necro are labeled a pet type class in some form. One just uses it more heavily. What it comes down to is a persons own opinion on just what a pet class should be. Which i'll let the search function do the talking for me in regards to that.

**HodgepodgeMcDodge** · 07-08-2015 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by Akiza

Y'mhitra stated there is still a new form of summoning at the end of the lvl 60 job quest.

Summner should get the ability to summon Hydaelyn and the Twelve because they are the only deities that can be actually summoned. I'm guessing since we skipped trancing with ordianary Primals and went straight to the Elder Primal Bahamut that Summoners will skip over the other Elder Primals and go straight to summomning Hydaelyn and the Twelve.

The Summoner should transform into Hydaelyn by getting filled with her personality and being. With Hydaelyn summoned we can either summon one of the twelve of our choosing which just changes the animation or use Hydaelyns spells and attakcs.

This is literally god mode. LOL

**Akiza** · 07-08-2015 09:57 AM

Pet jobs are hard to implement unless they make it a limited pet that comes out do a big attack than leave. Its much easier to add moves to the Summoner than add abilities to the Pet.

**pandabearcat** · 07-09-2015 12:38 AM

Just pretend your ruin is your pet making an attack.

That is pretty much the only difference.

There is no difference in playstyle even if all our attacks were somehow "done by the pet". You'd still have to tell them to do the action, to be balanced for all classes it would still have to be on the GCD, etc etc. We get it, you don't like dot classes then play something else. Seriously, there is no vehemence here, but simply that those that hate the base gameplay aren't gonna be satisfied. You knew what it was like when you got started.

**Saggo** · 07-09-2015 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Just pretend your ruin is your pet making an attack.

That is pretty much the only difference.

I've never cared for Akiza's points, but that's a poor argument to make. The logical extreme of it is that it's all just numbers in memory, and so what's the point of it all.

**pandabearcat** · 07-09-2015 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Saggo

I've never cared for Akiza's points, but that's a poor argument to make. The logical extreme of it is that it's all just numbers in memory, and so what's the point of it all.

Mechanically it is identical. See Hunter's Kill Command in WoW.

Obviously the caster is going to be GCD locked, they will still have to cast abilities...even if the abilities sourced from the pet the only difference would be cosmetic.

Sure some might prefer that, but that isn't what a lot of people are asking for. Heck I don't think they even know what they're asking for.

My point is that regardless of whether it is pet based or player based they are not going to completely overhaul the idea of the current SMN (unless it takes 10 years, see WoW warlock, even that was a resource revamp instead of extreme gameplay change).

**Saggo** · 07-09-2015 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Mechanically it is identical. See Hunter's Kill Command in WoW.

Obviously the caster is going to be GCD locked, they will still have to cast abilities...even if the abilities sourced from the pet the only difference would be cosmetic.

Sure some might prefer that, but that isn't what a lot of people are asking for. Heck I don't think they even know what they're asking for.

My point is that regardless of whether it is pet based or player based they are not going to completely overhaul the idea of the current SMN (unless it takes 10 years, see WoW warlock, even that was a resource revamp instead of extreme gameplay change).

The source of the damage changes things up enough. Being able to have 2 active targets alone opens up a new field of playstyles. But that's a whole other nuanced conversation. When you argue that it's all identical, the logical extreme is that the game is all numbers, and why am I even playing. People play MMOs to be something else.

I wasn't trying to imply you specifically didn't have a point, and trust me I fully doubt they'll ever change SMN's core mechanics too. Even though I'm fine playing it, I don't have to like their choice.

As for what most SMNs are asking for, I think they know, it's just all different. Of all the things SMN could have been, a DoT/Minion job was with the least basis, so everyone starts picking out each of their favorite things they could have done instead.

**Dement** · 07-09-2015 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Akiza

The Summoner should transform into Hydaelyn by getting filled with her personality and being. With Hydaelyn summoned we can either summon one of the twelve of our choosing which just changes the animation or use Hydaelyns spells and attakcs.

I love the idea of summoning Hydaelyn. Let's make her an egi so that when summoners just have a blob of a blue crystal floating around they can't complain about how it doesn't look the same as what they summoned. Now summoner is overpowered (can apparently vaporize primals with a snap of their fingers according to reliable sources that have never been questioned?) and they have a highly detailed blue oval pet that looks just like the real thing. We could even make it so that Hydaelyn does a rotation that casts Bio, Bio 2, and Miasma and then does a big attack off of those... let's call it Fester! All of this at the summoner's command so that all the damage is coming from Hydaelyn. Maybe then we can finally get some peace on the forums from the summoner crowd. Although, we'll probably have to implement the server wide 10 minute cutscene too for good measure, I loved that idea too.

I would have hoped you were appeased when you got what you wanted Akiza, now I realize my naivete. I look forward with grim determination to 2 more years of "FIX SUMMONER NAO BY MAKING THEM ABLE TO 1 SHOT EVERYTHING" threads.

**Akiza** · 07-09-2015 04:04 AM

Originally Posted by Dement

I love the idea of summoning Hydaelyn. Let's make her an egi so that when summoners just have a blob of a blue crystal floating around they can't complain about how it doesn't look the same as what they summoned. Now summoner is overpowered (can apparently vaporize primals with a snap of their fingers according to reliable sources that have never been questioned?) and they have a highly detailed blue oval pet that looks just like the real thing. We could even make it so that Hydaelyn does a rotation that casts Bio, Bio 2, and Miasma and then does a big attack off of those... let's call it Fester! All of this at the summoner's command so that all the damage is coming from Hydaelyn. Maybe then we can finally get some peace on the forums from the summoner crowd. Although, we'll probably have to implement the server wide 10 minute cutscene too for good measure, I loved that idea too.

I would have hoped you were appeased when you got what you wanted Akiza, now I realize my naivete. I look forward with grim determination to 2 more years of "FIX SUMMONER NAO BY MAKING THEM ABLE TO 1 SHOT EVERYTHING" threads.

Did you listen to how Hydaelyn introduced herself in the introduce herslef saying "I'm Hydaelyn all made one baiscally she is the Cosmos and All that is, Ever was and Ever will be with respect to Final Fantasy XIV.

Besides next expansion will raise the lvl cap to 70 so seeing as we got to channel Bahamut this time who is an Elder Primal and was the strongest in the game at the time. I think SE will skip to the big boss and have us summon Hydaelyn.

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