BRD/MCH Fixed!

[FateAudax]

I play all jobs I don't have a main but I do play the jobs to the fullest. The increase is more with it on than off.

All this salt because you guys don't want to adapt.

You can't taste the salt because it's not affecting the class you are playing the most and you have no right to pass it off as we don't want to adapt.
Stop being sanctimonious just because you aren't affected.

[AnnietheCat]

It's not a matter of not wanting adapt. Many of have tried it, and many of us are good at it. It's not hard to do. Our ability to adapt isn't the problem. We aren't being lazy, we aren't being bad players. The problem is that this is a completely different play style, and one we didn't choose. Yeah, the cast times are quick. But If we wanted cast times at all, we would have went with a mage class. Except we didn't. Many of us absolutely, without a doubt wanted a ranged physical dps class. That's all we're saying. It's a matter of "we tried this, we learned it, and it is a play style we don't like". Many of us have been playing bard for a year or more. Many of us were happy with our old play style. Our run and gun style hurt literally no one and it wasn't a problem. But now that we say this isn't a play style we like, everyone is telling us to suck it up because we don't need the mobility. That's why people are complaining.

[Noira]

LOL no I just don't pretend like changes aren't coming to a job.

Each class requires skill and planning now, bard is no different.

Stop complaining because you thought it wouldn't be touched.

I happen to enjoy the changes made to Bard and plan to finish it to 60 and raid with it.

[FateAudax]

LOL no I just don't pretend like changes aren't coming to a job.

Each class requires skill and planning now, bard is no different.

Stop complaining because you thought it wouldn't be touched.

I happen to enjoy the changes made to Bard and plan to finish it to 60 and raid with it.

Currently, amongst the 2.0 jobs which got hit the hardest is Bard, and we got hit with a cast bar. If it was some melee class who got hit with a cast bar, I wonder if people will be starting threads and be like "yea, it's fine. Melee with cast bar is like totally normal. We'll just learn to adapt.", "Thanks Yoshi.P! Totally love my new melee class with them cast bar. Now we're real melee."

[AnnietheCat]

I've already mentioned how bard players are split on what they want to see from the job itself. No one thought it wouldn't be touched. We didn't think we'd have our play style ripped from us and forced to be a bow mage. It's cool you enjoy the changes. I'm glad someone does, because the devs worked really hard on it. But many people still hate it. This is one of those times when Yoshi-P's time in other MMOs is going to be harmful to us because with how split players are over our new changes, this game could benefit from the addition of specialization. As much as I dislike both SWTOR and WoW, the way they handle jobs and the freedom of choice is something they both do right. The people who enjoy the changes aren't the problem. But pretending we all have to like them because half of the career bards like them is a problem. If there was a choice between WM and something else, fine. But at this point we're forced into a play style that many of us hate. Not all, just many.

[lordjoosie]

snip

Stop complaining because you thought it wouldn't be touched.

I happen to enjoy the changes made to Bard and plan to finish it to 60 and raid with it.

Unlike a lot of folks, for me it's not at all about not liking the changes. I can play the job either way and be fine. It's about balance. The roles are supposed to be balanced. This isn't a wish of mine. It's a stated goal of the designers of the game. Every healer class should heal/support the party equally, every tank class should be equally useful to a party. And every DPS class should provide the same damage to a party whether it be by straight damage, or it's own damage combined with added damage for the party through abilities.

Bard currently, no matter how it is played, does not, so it needs to be adjusted. They didn't make these changes because they thought bard wasn't difficult enough to play. They thought it would balance the job. It has not.

[codofwisdom]

All this salt because you guys don't want to adapt.

Correct. I see some trying to deny it, but it's true.

Yes, some of us wish that Bard wasn't changed so drastically. Yes, some of us think that the changes are for the worse.

But to me, all of it is salt, salt, salt.

"We're no longer Mobile! We have to hold still to cast!"
We give up a second, a SECOND of movement, to hit for 30% more. Going to get hit? Cancel the animation, and use Bloodletter. Unless there's a hazard, you were holding still anyway. When there's about a quarter of a second left on the timer, you can move and STILL get the attack off. Your mobility is not gone. You're just annoyed that you have to make a choice.

"We have a cast timer!"
So the initial attack is delayed by a second. You start up the next attack as soon as the last one hits, and you'll probably notice how the cast timer and the CD on skills are practically the same. So the cast time basically negates the CD for the next attack.

"They changed my class!"
They've evolved our class. I'm sorry, I've only been playing a couple of months, but I'm pretty sure that if I played the same class for a couple of years, I'd be sick of it. Now, you have a fresh class to master. It feels like we're complaining about having to practice, and get better.

We would have complained if Bards didn't change. We complained because it did change. We complained that SE spent so much time developing our class in HW, that they changed the Play-style itself.

[RiceisNice]

...
"They changed my class!"
They've evolved our class. I'm sorry, I've only been playing a couple of months, but I'm pretty sure that if I played the same class for a couple of years, I'd be sick of it. Now, you have a fresh class to master. It feels like we're complaining about having to practice, and get better.

Every other class gets something that adds onto what they can already do, or improve on their previous short comings. Bard (and BLM from what I hear) get something that changes their gameplay drastically from how it was level 50. The casting time alone is cumbersome when it comes to bloodletter procs and their 4 different oGCDs. It's frustrating to see my bloodletter reset twice in the middle of a heavy shot cast, and when I see straighter shot proc halfway into my next heavy shot. BLMs on the otherhand don't find a reason to fit in thunder because enochian is straight up more efficent use of their GCDs, but that's just hearsay on my end

It's not even a matter of adapting because machinist with GB plays more-or-less the same in regards to cast times, having oGCD abilties and waiting on procs. I just happen to enjoy the latter more because their toolkit was designed around with it in mind (like their shots having shorter animations so you can see procs even within a 1-GCD window) and I'm not helplessly watch my procs go to waste because it happened half way into my .75 second cast.

Could they have not added abilities to bard that expanded upon their gameplay from 2.0, and keep machinist the way it is? The way I see it, it's a bard trying to do what machinist does, but stumbling because the class originally was not designed with cast times in mind, causing clipping with their procs. I can't even come up with examples to get my point across toward other classes because none of them plays like Bard to make a reasonable comparison to how they've changed.

[Rafaelhades]

They could swap Emp arrow and Sidewinder in WM. Emp arrow only useable in WM and make crits reset cd on Emp arrow, making it the Bloodletter while WM is active, while Sidewinder can be used out of WM to allow for better burst while on the move on top of BL resets. This way, people won't have to worry about BL resets while turreting. BRD 3.0 isn't as fluid as 2.0.

[Chairman_Meow]

"We're no longer Mobile! We have to hold still to cast!"
We give up a second, a SECOND of movement, to hit for 30% more. Going to get hit? Cancel the animation, and use Bloodletter. Unless there's a hazard, you were holding still anyway. When there's about a quarter of a second left on the timer, you can move and STILL get the attack off. Your mobility is not gone. You're just annoyed that you have to make a choice.

A second and a half... depending on lag. You're telling me you have to stand still for 1.25 seconds and our mobility isnt "gone". That's like saying BLM has mobility because they can move in between casts. Forced to having to stand still means our mobility is gone. And the issue isn't so much the mobility as it is we're getting very little return from it. Sure 30% sounds like a lot on paper but in practice it's still trash.

"We have a cast timer!"
So the initial attack is delayed by a second. You start up the next attack as soon as the last one hits, and you'll probably notice how the cast timer and the CD on skills are practically the same. So the cast time basically negates the CD for the next attack.

The issue isn't having a cast time. The issue stems from having a cast time. Which is being forced to stand still on a mobile class. And still doing trash dps. We're trading off mobility for a little less trash dps. It's still trash dps. And don't give me that "oh bards can do 1k dps parse". That only happens under 2 conditions. Multiple target dotting or during your opening. When other classes can pull the same and more dps than your multi-target dotting on a single target then there's where the balance starts to break.

"They changed my class!"
They've evolved our class. I'm sorry, I've only been playing a couple of months, but I'm pretty sure that if I played the same class for a couple of years, I'd be sick of it. Now, you have a fresh class to master. It feels like we're complaining about having to practice, and get better.

People play the same class for a couple of years because that's the play-style they want to play. If they were sick of it they could just switch to the other 12 classes to play. If they wanted to play a class that stands still and cast-bar-galore then they would just play BLM. It's that simple.

I had the same mindset as you did when they first announced the change. But I decided to make my final judgement after I hit 60 and did a few runs with it. Overall it wasn't worth it. Bards were still better off not using Minuet and only using Sidewinder from their new skills. And now that they nerfed SW... I'll be leveling up my Ninja.