BRD/MCH Fixed!

[Noira]

I play all jobs I don't have a main but I do play the jobs to the fullest. The increase is more with it on than off.

All this salt because you guys don't want to adapt.

[FateAudax]

I play all jobs I don't have a main but I do play the jobs to the fullest. The increase is more with it on than off.

All this salt because you guys don't want to adapt.

You can't taste the salt because it's not affecting the class you are playing the most and you have no right to pass it off as we don't want to adapt.
Stop being sanctimonious just because you aren't affected.

[codofwisdom]

All this salt because you guys don't want to adapt.

Correct. I see some trying to deny it, but it's true.

Yes, some of us wish that Bard wasn't changed so drastically. Yes, some of us think that the changes are for the worse.

But to me, all of it is salt, salt, salt.

"We're no longer Mobile! We have to hold still to cast!"
We give up a second, a SECOND of movement, to hit for 30% more. Going to get hit? Cancel the animation, and use Bloodletter. Unless there's a hazard, you were holding still anyway. When there's about a quarter of a second left on the timer, you can move and STILL get the attack off. Your mobility is not gone. You're just annoyed that you have to make a choice.

"We have a cast timer!"
So the initial attack is delayed by a second. You start up the next attack as soon as the last one hits, and you'll probably notice how the cast timer and the CD on skills are practically the same. So the cast time basically negates the CD for the next attack.

"They changed my class!"
They've evolved our class. I'm sorry, I've only been playing a couple of months, but I'm pretty sure that if I played the same class for a couple of years, I'd be sick of it. Now, you have a fresh class to master. It feels like we're complaining about having to practice, and get better.

We would have complained if Bards didn't change. We complained because it did change. We complained that SE spent so much time developing our class in HW, that they changed the Play-style itself.

[RiceisNice]

...
"They changed my class!"
They've evolved our class. I'm sorry, I've only been playing a couple of months, but I'm pretty sure that if I played the same class for a couple of years, I'd be sick of it. Now, you have a fresh class to master. It feels like we're complaining about having to practice, and get better.

Every other class gets something that adds onto what they can already do, or improve on their previous short comings. Bard (and BLM from what I hear) get something that changes their gameplay drastically from how it was level 50. The casting time alone is cumbersome when it comes to bloodletter procs and their 4 different oGCDs. It's frustrating to see my bloodletter reset twice in the middle of a heavy shot cast, and when I see straighter shot proc halfway into my next heavy shot. BLMs on the otherhand don't find a reason to fit in thunder because enochian is straight up more efficent use of their GCDs, but that's just hearsay on my end

It's not even a matter of adapting because machinist with GB plays more-or-less the same in regards to cast times, having oGCD abilties and waiting on procs. I just happen to enjoy the latter more because their toolkit was designed around with it in mind (like their shots having shorter animations so you can see procs even within a 1-GCD window) and I'm not helplessly watch my procs go to waste because it happened half way into my .75 second cast.

Could they have not added abilities to bard that expanded upon their gameplay from 2.0, and keep machinist the way it is? The way I see it, it's a bard trying to do what machinist does, but stumbling because the class originally was not designed with cast times in mind, causing clipping with their procs. I can't even come up with examples to get my point across toward other classes because none of them plays like Bard to make a reasonable comparison to how they've changed.

[Chairman_Meow]

"We're no longer Mobile! We have to hold still to cast!"
We give up a second, a SECOND of movement, to hit for 30% more. Going to get hit? Cancel the animation, and use Bloodletter. Unless there's a hazard, you were holding still anyway. When there's about a quarter of a second left on the timer, you can move and STILL get the attack off. Your mobility is not gone. You're just annoyed that you have to make a choice.

A second and a half... depending on lag. You're telling me you have to stand still for 1.25 seconds and our mobility isnt "gone". That's like saying BLM has mobility because they can move in between casts. Forced to having to stand still means our mobility is gone. And the issue isn't so much the mobility as it is we're getting very little return from it. Sure 30% sounds like a lot on paper but in practice it's still trash.

"We have a cast timer!"
So the initial attack is delayed by a second. You start up the next attack as soon as the last one hits, and you'll probably notice how the cast timer and the CD on skills are practically the same. So the cast time basically negates the CD for the next attack.

The issue isn't having a cast time. The issue stems from having a cast time. Which is being forced to stand still on a mobile class. And still doing trash dps. We're trading off mobility for a little less trash dps. It's still trash dps. And don't give me that "oh bards can do 1k dps parse". That only happens under 2 conditions. Multiple target dotting or during your opening. When other classes can pull the same and more dps than your multi-target dotting on a single target then there's where the balance starts to break.

"They changed my class!"
They've evolved our class. I'm sorry, I've only been playing a couple of months, but I'm pretty sure that if I played the same class for a couple of years, I'd be sick of it. Now, you have a fresh class to master. It feels like we're complaining about having to practice, and get better.

People play the same class for a couple of years because that's the play-style they want to play. If they were sick of it they could just switch to the other 12 classes to play. If they wanted to play a class that stands still and cast-bar-galore then they would just play BLM. It's that simple.

I had the same mindset as you did when they first announced the change. But I decided to make my final judgement after I hit 60 and did a few runs with it. Overall it wasn't worth it. Bards were still better off not using Minuet and only using Sidewinder from their new skills. And now that they nerfed SW... I'll be leveling up my Ninja.

[StrejdaTom]

I am probably just plain bad or I dont know. I have been playing BRD since 2013. ATM got iLVL 183 but I still do more DPS without WM even if I almost dont move and use it only for the non-mobile fight phases.

So far the only good use of WM (atleast for me) is for aoe.

For me the 30% DPS boost just dont compare with no AA, no movement, nerfed new skills (with so called "fix") and no ability to weave more off GCDs like a baws.

Yeah and I am not even stating my utter disappointment and disgust with our new "support" skill which I wasnt able to use a single time since I got it.

[Kuraran]

Just a little story from personal experience and how i feel/felt about using WM~
Enjoy reading if you even take your time to read this :3

**********

As someone who switched from Monk to Bard pre-expansion, having just 2-3 weeks to adjust to the job and playstyle, I should probably be feeling salttier than I actually am.

Having no steady rotation where I just have to press buttons 1-2-3 in order, but a more or less priority system of when to use which skill was already a adjustment I had to make to the playstyle I learned before. Having to watch out for the MP/TP of your members to know when you should play your songs was a bit frustrating at first, since I always forgot to switch the song on or off after I activated it, but I somehow managed to adjust to this as well.

When I first saw the new skills for Bards in that one LL, where they showed them off, I wasn't really thrilled with having a cast timer on my skills since I hate playing Casters and I also knew, that with all the new things I had to look out for, things would get pretty confusing for me since I would've to watch out for when to move without breaking my cast (while trying to look out for mechanics of course) and weaving abilities wouldn't feel the same as before.

After seeing the descriptions for these new abilities, I already felt like "Well, just having all of that mobility and running around will probably still be better." Since I still had (and still have but not as much) that feeling of playing like a Melee-DPS inside of me.

When the expansion hit the servers and I was climbing up to 60 slowly but steadily, I already noticed that I really didn't like using WM just because of those cast timers and how confused I actually got with the priority system while watching out for mechanics and all that stuff (did I already mention that I hate playing as a Caster?). I really denied adjusting to that one Skill.

I also did tests comparing WM vs no WM, and there really wasn't that much of a diffrence for me personally in DPS so I decided not using it at all.

Now post 3.01, I did those same DPS tests again and the DPS with WM was definitely better but I still tried to deny using WM for content, since I really couldn't imagine adjusting to it that well.

So my Raid naturally decided to go do Alexander of course and I never used WM when we tried all those boss fights for the first time. I compared my DPS to that of the other DPS in the group and I really felt frustrated, that I did so much less damage than them, so I finally decided to give WM while we farmed A4 for those tokens.

As expected, I really had my problems adjusting to playing with WM on. I'd sometimes ignore mechanics, sometimes not but instead would break the cast of a skill I almost finished casting and stuff like that.

I somehow managed to deal more DPS than with no WM but it was still pretty low compared to the other DPS. Try after try though, I adjusted more and more and also took more notice of my surroundings. I knew when I could avoid mechanics without breaking my cast, I started to move more in between casts and didn't feel hesitant about doing so anymore and my DPS also got better until I reached the point, where I was finally on par with our other Casters DPS. And I seriously felt happy about that.

Then we started to farm A3 for Tokens and I started to feel frustrated again. Other mechanics, other things to watch out for, the same mistakes I made when I started using WM for the first time but not as much, and lower DPS than all the other DPS yet again.

After some tries and even more adjusting, I managed to do the same as in A4 and raise my DPS to the same level as our Caster or sometimes even be above him, so I felt happy again.

When we started to farm A1 I wasn't really ssure how I'd do but I somehow managed to do pretty well from the beginning on while WM was turned on, when compared to the other turns. I also managed to be on par with most other DPS in our group for this turn. Because of this, our Monk decided to switch to Dragoon for some tries, just to see how far I could push my DPS.... and I somehow managed to be top DPS for most of those tries and I was really surprised and also happy again ^-^

After going through all of this, I don't really hate playing as a Caster as much as before and I also don't mind using WM in the slightest, since I've somehow managed to adjust to it pretty fast in a short amount of time.

**********

Well yeah... long story short:

After starting to get into this "Caster-Feel" and also a feel for WM, I started to like it way more.
I can still understand the saltyness of others but if you don't even try to adjust to the skill then you shouldn't really complain about it.

I also think that some adjustments to make WM even more useful should be made, but not necessesarily those that'll make you "always" be on par with other DPS ignoring diffrent situations.

Some weird ideas I've had that would be "nice to have":

1. A damage buff of X% you gain while you're in WM and Battle Voice is active (been thinking of 5-10% here.... 10% might be too much though)

2. A damage buff of X%*X while Battle Voice is active (X representing the number of active Songs you're playing, which would be either 1 or 2 with WM on in this case. Also been thinking of 5% here)

Why did I have these ideas? Well... WM is still a song that you need to play to increase your damage. It doesn't drain mana like the other songs but it still is a song. So I've been thinking "Why not let it benefit from Battle Voice somehow as well, even if it's just a minor damage increase?"

Like I already said, that's just me having some weird ideas though and might be a bit too much to ask for~

[nuyu11]

Snip.

This is how I feel.

[SendohJin]

They've evolved our class. I'm sorry, I've only been playing a couple of months, but I'm pretty sure that if I played the same class for a couple of years, I'd be sick of it.

you're playing the wrong game. in FF14 when you start to feel like you might get sick of a class you change your weapon and you play a different one.

the problem is when i change from my BLM Staff to a Bow, i don't feel like i'm playing a different class, just an inferior one, that's what makes us sick.

[Verius_Nox]

the problem is when i change from my BLM Staff to a Bow, i don't feel like i'm playing a different class, just an inferior one, that's what makes us sick.

Weird, because I noticed a complete change in mobility and swiftness when I put my BLM staff away and took up a bow. Going from 3s casts for everything to 1.5s makes you feel less restricted.