BRD/MCH Fixed!

[Rose-Wild]

I like the changes and all. 8 like that I can now add GB to my rotation and not lose DPS. But is it just me or does ricochet kinda suck now?

Same happened to Sidewinder but meh trust me the dps of both got way better with the change. It was not needed to nerf a 1 min cd tho that to start with wasn't even that high compared to other stuff.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

Are the bad BRDs still complaining that they don't have damage equal to a BLM and that they should be a full DPS class, despite YoshiP telling people BRD is a support class, whatever people's opinion?

And people still claiming they don't use songs?

My lord, you guys are just bad.

[RiceisNice]

...

He's gone back and fourth from what I've seen in regards to what roles BRD/MCH brings. "They're not support dps! They're dps classes! oh wait, they're support DPS". At the end of the day, they still fill in a dps slot, and they already take a damage penalty anyway when they use their regen abilties.

Also, none of alexander atm (barring constant deaths and floor 2) require TP songs or mp songs. If savage were to maintain the basic concept of the current mechanics (that is, with all the phasing), it's very likely you won't need a TP song for those fights either. There's enough pauses inbetween every jump, every phase change, and every mortal revelation that I never had to swap my turret to TP.

You don't necessarily have to sing to be a good bard (or turret in case of MCH). The good ones know when it's needed and not incur unnecessary dps loss. And in current content, it's really not needed unless your healers are dying or ressing. This is the case even for foe req; you;d want it being used at the best time where your caster (esp BLM) has full uptime.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

Snip

Current content, I'll agree it doesn't need it. But a BRDs true worth isn't in easy mode stuff ( I mean, for god sake, you can DPS everything in that content quicker with 3 WARs and a healer)

I say, wait till Savage Alexander, see how the fights are. If it's true that you don't need to use any TP song or MP song (which I truly doubt to be fair), then we can have this discussion. But the main end game content up to this point, pre nerf, has always had a BRD in it where those songs have always been crucial to the fight.

Christ, I hate this post limit.

[Garan]

Are the bad BRDs still complaining that they don't have damage equal to a BLM and that they should be a full DPS class, despite YoshiP telling people BRD is a support class, whatever people's opinion?

And people still claiming they don't use songs?

My lord, you guys are just bad.

I'm not yelling at you directly, but WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP SAYING THIS!!!!!

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Did everyone forget that BRDs receive a 15% damage loss every time we sing ballad or paeon? WE ARE ALREADY BEING PENALIZED FOR OUR SUPPORT ROLE IN THE PARTY!

Previously our lower base DPS was fine. We could make up for it with our great mobility by having no downtime(or very little) on our DPS in comparison to other DPS.

Now however, WM adds casting time to our skills which no longer allows for this great mobility unless stance dancing constantly. Which, depending on the fight could be problematic with the 15 second cool down on WM. And despite this, we still don't have the same damage output as other DPS (Now this is the important part so listen up) WHEN NOT SINGING AND STANDING COMPLETELY STILL.

Last time I checked NIN doesn't get a % DPS loss for the entire uptime of Suiton. DRG doesn't get a % DPS loss for the entire uptime of their crit buff. Etc, Etc.

[SirionArmar]

Did everyone forget that BRDs receive a 15% damage loss every time we sing ballad or paeon? WE ARE ALREADY BEING PENALIZED FOR OUR SUPPORT ROLE IN THE PARTY!

Hmm. DPS loss huh? Sure, 15% damage down when we sing Ballad/Paeon, I can see that. When we sing these 2 songs, yes, our numbers are reduced. But how often do we actually have to sing these? Allow me to indulge you with an example from my first few Alexander runs in the Duty Finder. In all 4 turns, I only had to sing in 2 of them; one Paeon in A2 and a Ballad in A4. Now, did I have to empty my mana reserves? No, in fact I merely had to sing for the duration of Battle Voice before TP/MP were once again at comfortable levels. Did my damage take a hit? Of course. But was this a dps loss? Let me ask you, is a dead tank or dps a dps loss? Is a lack of TP for several classes a dps loss? We take the hit so that The Raid does not. Is 15% a lot? Not Really, and I will explain why down below.

[SirionArmar]

As I stated before I had to sing for about 30 seconds, the duration of Battle Voice. During these 30 seconds, I had Wanderer's Minuet up, because I am of the mind that it is a good skill. I like the damage increase. Movement isn't an issue because I didn't run around like a neanderthal previously. The playstyle is minimalistically different. Oh wow, I need to stand still to use a skill! Let me do that like I have always done. Oh no! I have an ability I can use! Let me just use this 1 second of freedom before my GCD is available again. Egad! An aoe marker has appear at my feet! Whatever shall I do!? Oh, hang on, I can move out of it preemptively because just like BLM we are able to move as our casts come to an end without interrupting them, not to mention that second where I can also activate an ability.

[SirionArmar]

WM increases your damage by 30%. So, if I have to Ballad/Paeon, with WM up I am still dealing more damage than I would be without WM. Pre 3.0 it was always a loss to support the party, but now we have the opportunity to negate this and even overcome it. Mobility is not an issue with some practice, we've seen inside of Alexander, nothing in there is even remotely difficult to dodge or avoid. And please tell me how on earth we have lost our 100% uptime; I'd love to hear from you about this point in particular. With WM being at 30%, there is no question that is does more than enough to compensate for the loss of Autoattacks now (which by the way many of these were often squandered by the Bards who loved running around without at least facing the target or locking on), and all of our attacks are much stronger for it.

[AnnietheCat]

I don't really post much but from what I'm seeing here and on reddit, the Bard community is split. Half of us want to be pure DPS and the other half wants to lean more towards support. To be honest, I've always hated the hybrid idea, and so I lean more towards the dps side. I think Yoshi-P and company need to do what they are avoiding and implement specialization, as to give players much more freedom and utility. I've been maining bard for a year now, and this is honestly the most dissatisfied I've been with it. I like my gun and run style, and I accepted my lower dps and songs in exchange for the style I actually enjoy.

[ScarecrowJames]

Snip.

TBH there needs to be more than 3 roles. I'm not sure how they can go about that with 4-8 man parties unless you go into Alliances. Tank, Healer and Dps are the current roles. You need healers to keep the Tanks alive and DPS to finish the fight. Support on the other hand is either thrown in kits of the 3 without reducing the effectiveness of their role(usually). The problem is now Support and DPS is butting heads. You aren't a DPS if you're not doing dps. It comes down to how viable support is. TBH atm it seems you can complete most dungeons without Bard or Machinst.