Thread: Please help me understand why i should continue to play a repeat of 2.0?

I agree with OP to a certain extent that the game really is just a re-skinned 2.0 we are just doing the exact same things as we did before instead of getting a proper expansion which offers ALOT more which HW simply does not atm as a launch expansion I am extremely disappointed in what we have gotten.

- I expected to be doing the same tomestone farming roulettes as in 2.0 but with only 2 dungeons in expert? this is really poor for launch at least have 5 dungeons in expert and maybe add another new way in which we can obtain tomestones that isn't hunt....

- Flying is amazing and the areas look stunning but apart from being able to complete certain quests or getting to a pre-pulled hunt mob it's just a gimmick. They could spent their time on making other content rather than spending alot of dev time on flying and just left us with regular mounts I would of been fine with that.

- The level cap increase has completely ruined older content as nobody will optionally choose to go in with 8 ppl group with lv50 ilv cap to do those older content again I loved re-doing some of those fights with new FC members but now doing them at 60 with smaller groups makes them just a borefest and has ruined those experiences for new players which could of enjoyed them like we did. Not sure why they decided not to lv cap older content but increasing ilv cap to make them somewhat easier for players to complete.

- Not enough new content to replace the old content as with all lv cap increases they usually ruin the older parts of the game but there isn't enough new content in HW to replace the old.

- FFXIV Hunts are just really a poor man's version of the NM and HNM in FFXI both are respawns but one is fun the other is stupid and annoying. Odin and Behemoth Fates were a better system something that wouldn't be killed within 1min of trying to get to it or having prepullers, the lack of hard monsters in the world of Eorzea is really disrespectful of how SE views their players, they could of made S ranks an actual challenge did they not look at what gear players would have at this stage and how many would be interested in them?

- Adding something like Assaults or Nyzul Isle (my fav endgame) from FFXI would be an amazing idea in FFXIV having a 100 floor endgame system where you need to complete each objective on each floor within a certain time limit would be something refreshing for the 14 they could basically copy/paste the system over making it fit to 14's combat system which would not require so much time to develop than creating something completely new as most of the idea/system is already there.


Also what alot of you are assuming is that OP just wants another FFXI which he does not he also understands that FFXI has ALOT of flaws but XI overall had ALOT of fun and different content to enjoy from 3-18man systems which he wants similar systems with the future of FFXIV and SE should of somewhat added something extra to HW launch to keep players happy not just tomestone and alexander.

For people who are trying too hard to understand:

FFXI THE BAD:

- Lving took way to long to reach the end and became a huge grind which took months to achieve while fun it was for your 1st lv75 getting another felt too much of a chore to repeat, SE at least learned this for FFXIV ARR and made this better in dungeons but they could of at least added a maybe 1-2 low new dungeons so that its not exactly the same as before.

- Travelling around took way too much time to get to one place to the other glad they have mounts in 14

- Looking for groups for certain content by shouting could take hrs on end (or maybe never until the next day) before something actually happened but at the same time you had to get to know the players of your server and couldn't be a dick because you weren't going to see them again, Duty Finder in 14 is a godsend to have as shouting only is something outdated.

- Not being able to chat or look at chat while zoning was something alot of people forget this really is a huge improvement 14 which is overlooked and it makes 11 look so outdated.

- Relics pre-abyssea were so daft to get only a small amount of people managed to achieve this as most of the time only 1 player benefited from farming dynamis currency, they changed this after you could solo dynamis as everyone had to same chance to get one if you put in enough time for it.

- The cheaters alot of people don't realise just how many players actually use speed hacks, claiming bots or being able to go through walls etc and get away with it this is what ruined FF11 imo as these were supposedly the best players on the server can't say if people used this in the old days but abyssea-adoulin it got beyond ridiculous these players ruled the server by cheating becoming the richest selling the best items on the AH... (and yes not everyone used it but alot did)

FFXI THE GOOD:

- "CONTENT" FFXI had such as diverse amount of different content which all remained somewhat relevant for many yrs being able to do sky, sea, garrison, eco-warrior, limbus, enherjar, dynamis, salvage, assault, nyzul isle, ark angels, HNMs, VNMs, ENMs, BCNMs, besieged, campaign, voidwatcher, delve, abyssea, wildskeeper reive ALL these were different from each other adding another element of fun to the game giving players a feeling of this is new! this is an expansion! creative ways to do endgame and 14 + yoshi p should learn from 11's endgame systems that endgame can be different/fun and I hope they will.

- Stats there were so much more different stats like haste, damage taken, pet dmg increase, certain skill/spell boost gear etc etc etc 14 needed to add a different stat to the game at heavensward to really add something different to the table instead of the same boring gear stats.

- GIL and Crafting these felt something really big to have in 11 some crafted gear were the BiS while others could be gotten from endgame, I somewhat feel that these ain't that useful to have in 14 unless you like having alot of cash or you are into buying your own House... crafting for endgame gear etc feels pointless as everything is better from endgame raid or tomestone gear I never feel like I need to buy anything from the market unless I want to glamour. The only craft that feels useful is cooking for HQ food but everything has been too easy so far nothing has required you to use it.

- The stories in 11 were amazing especially CoP which are at the same levels of epicness as the best FF stories, 14's however simply is not while in ARR that ending was so freaking amazing with nanamo dying and Raubahn going apeshit they basically ruined it with Heavenward's story so far I have no clue why they made those 2 chars feel as though nothing has happened. Also while Heavensward's story with Estinien has been pretty cool the journey getting there has not felt that great they made it far too easy to complete dungeons/bosses/primals etc which makes the "villains" feel somewhat weak and doesnt help to project the story of them being so almighty and powerful like Nidhogg or the final fight. While I like the story in 14 it is nowhere as good as 11's so far anyways.

- The community and the guild system in 11 was amazing feeling like your LS is a tight family who like to do everything with each other I just don't get that feeling in 14 with FCs as most stuff requires DF which you can be solo queued and 24man I hope they make it so u need a FC not WoD again which required no skill and carrying ppl through... anything outside of DF like hunts you also do not need your FC they need to make some content in 14 where it is required to do stuff with them I thought airships were going to be that not just a retainer system... as someone else mentioned FC just becomes a chat channel.

- The world in 11 it was all interconnected to a certain degree having to go to places and exploring felt more like a real world doing certain endgame content in the actual world made areas feel useful to go to, while in 14 there are dungeons but you can't actually enter them without the use of DF sitting in a city waiting for commence isn't something which you should only be doing in a MMO having both DF and endgame content to do around eorzea outside of dungeons would be alot more fun, the only thing which makes you explore and do content outside them is hunts which is a really awful system.



At the end of the day you can still have fun from the heavensward expansion but once you have hit the barrier of saying "Is this it?" doing most of what is offered it really feels like there isn't anything else and you are just waiting for the next patch imo HW is 6/10 atm just feels really lackluster as a launch expansion kinda like how Adoulin felt from FFXI also bad at launch it just feels rushed like the Gold Saucer which both could of waited 6 months more to get them better developed with more content just ends up feeling like HW was more of a business decision rather than a quality one :/ (also Triple Triad Tourneys are SHIT fix that BS already into DF bracket knockout structure)

FFXI the good part is very relative, not everyone's cup of tea.

- Content: yes it has so many of them, since it has many more expansion. But bottom line, it is the SAME exact thing, grinding with gated time on how many you can do per day/s/week. Not to mention it gets overtly complicated, and they LOVE to make you GRIND for crap before you can even do the actual endgame stuffs. Get key item, do this, buy this but you must farm that said special currency. Bloated overtly complicated, unnecessary time sink grind just to extend gameplay. The Relic Weapon in FF14 has the case of FFXI shitastic grind fantastic fest, I do hope they ease this botched RNG grind fest on 3.0, otherwise I will skip it, optional weapon, not needed at all.

- Sure, stats are more flexible, but at the end of the day, there are certain optimal sets, and you must follow them or don't ever wish to be included on endgame. Rdm/War, just because yeah? How about War/Whm, cuz I want to be able to heal yeah? Nope, do not need this. FF14 is much more focused, curated and simplified.

- Gil and crafting, please do not get me started on this.... FF14 does a much better jobs. I don't ever ever need to buy ANYTHING from the auction house if I choose to spend some time getting things and do research on wiki or reddit. All the BiS gears are from actual events you must do and EARN the rewards. Gils are useless unless you want to power level craft and play Animal Crossing FF edition. Oh yeah, and if you want to make relic weapon FAST and skip all the grinding materia by yourself, cuz you know, apparently people really hate grinding but want to have the weapon ASAP now, and yet complaint when originally, at level 90, the relic quest is rather manageable.

- FF11 story is ok, not great but not bad, too many fetch quest just like FF14, but done in far far far far worse style. The amount of time sink for the sake of "well we just wanna make sure you farm random key item for an hour or two" is ridiculous. No thanks. FF14 is far more focused, streamlined and way better, 3.0 is the step in the right direction. FF14 CS blows FF11 out of the water. CoP is the most atrocious expansion ever, one of the worst missions ever designed in a game. Glad they totally nerf this now. All of those complainers about 3.0 content being gated, they must never play CoP on its original state lol. The amount of sadistic torture FFXI implemented to make sure only 10 percent of their player base ever reach Sea is just bad design decision. Here in FF14, you can access all the theme park content once you finish MSQ that is rather easy to do.

- Community is better yes, mainly because you are all stuck in one server. So bad reputation travel fast and you cannot do anything solo, you end up being forced to play nice with each other or you can't progress in the game.

- FF14 world is far more beautifully designed, very curated, and the creator spend a great deal of time crafting each areas with love. Each is diverse, very immersive and comes alive. The music is just as good as FFXI, some music is better here (those primal).

- Dungeons are far nicer here. Mechanic is far better here.

- Boatload of abilities and spells in FFXI, do you need 6 cures? 4 curagas? NO!! How about 5 regen spells yes? Useless boatload more more shitastic abilities. And people already complaint here when they add five abilities that alter your play style at 60 lol.

- Currency craziness bonanza that will drives you insane... How many different currency must I keep track.... Nope do not need this bullcrap content. I love how FF14 handles it, TWO currency, period, end of story. Simplicity is VERY VERY hard to do, while keep adding features after features are very easy to do. FF14 is great, keep it simple, accessible and yet has quite depth and nuances.

Again all of these are very subjective. Some FFXI veteran players hate FF14 with passion. I love FF14, they did such an amazing job creating this game. It is very modern, very accessible, lots and lots of variety of things to do, cater greatly to people with not a lot of time in their hands.

Originally Posted by Rampage

But lets get real: "ain't nobody got time for that". Most cant stay in College gamer mode forever.

LMAO, I love your reply, literally explaining the exact BONUS feature of FFXI and why it is so "EPIC" in many ways. They streamline a lot now though, in comparison the current FFXI is closely resemble FF14 more and more.

I do wish that you could do a quest where you can augment your gears with maybe beneficial bonus such as 3% more healing, less magic damage taken, less physical damage taken, etc.. Similar on how FFXI does with Delve gears augmentation path. I think that would breathe fresh air into customization of your gears and abilities and give some players their "snowflake" status a well deserved grinding time. Though it won't take long for the community to turn toxic and start DEMANDING everyone has to have certain gears with certain augmentation and play the optimized set or you will be banned from joining events. This is why I understand that SE goes for simplicity on gears, which now rely on how good you are in dodging, optimizing your button rotation, and react accordingly if you are healer or tank to sudden changes in your party dynamic (aka DERP DPS who cannot avoid AOE, again, and again, and once more, again).

I don't think a lot of people actually get what is the issue here.
Is the ep fun? Yeah, its alot of fun.
Is it ANY different as far as routine and the way we play it then it was before, at least a new game mode type ?
No, its the exact same. Hunts, how to level, everything.
They missed a big opportunity here.
Sure its fun, but there's not a thing unfamiliar about it, and from that perspective its complete b*.
XI would add different ways to level every exp, or just have flat out fun like besieged.
Work on a new system so gear does something different, something......
What the hell is new in HW routine wise ? Abilities and flying, the rest is just a repeat 2.0, and thats fine, if it ALSO had new ways of playing full time as a seperate option. But it doesn't, thats why the rage and I agree with it, but I'm not quitting, its still fun. Cause 2.0 was fun, but that shouldn't mean SE shouldn't have done something more here.

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

- Content: yes it has so many of them, since it has many more expansion. But bottom line, it is the SAME exact thing, grinding with gated time on how many you can do per day/s/week. Not to mention it gets overtly complicated, and they LOVE to make you GRIND for crap before you can even do the actual endgame stuffs. Get key item, do this, buy this but you must farm that said special currency. Bloated overtly complicated, unnecessary time sink grind just to extend gameplay.

Then you need to ask yourself why are you playing a MMO? Since all MMOs are definition of grinding if you dont like doing so then theres no point playing a MMO but if you continue to play you need to stop complaining about them... and my point was that in XI per expansion they always had new content that were always unique and different than to what was previously in the game things that were creative, whereas 14 so far its the same as 2.0 content tomestone roulette grind, ex farming grind, alexander/coil THE SAME SYSTEMS where is the creative new endgame? (like Nyzul Isle) where is some side content maybe with smaller groups that isn't just dungeons? there isn't anything new.

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

- Sure, stats are more flexible, but at the end of the day, there are certain optimal sets, and you must follow them or don't ever wish to be included on endgame.

Talking about actually STATS in the game's system, there's the main stats (VIT, STR, DEX, MND etc) but 11 also has like Shield Skill, Enmity, Haste, Damage Taken, Magic Damage Bonus, Enhanced Rampart, Element Resistance, Occassionally attack more than once, Drain weapons, Pet haste, crit dmg, crit chance etc on gear. Having more different stats makes the game more fun, it's boring when its the same main stats with a few with extra stats like det/crit to go along with them 4 different stats on each piece of gear there is no variety on gear and there is always 1 BiS not a few to select from.

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Rdm/War, just because yeah? How about War/Whm, cuz I want to be able to heal yeah? Nope, do not need this. FF14 is much more focused, curated and simplified.

Actually RDM/WAR was an option as there were certain times were RDM tanks were used due to their MDB trait ofc not a fully fledged tank but geared correctly with enmity etc it is a choice something which you as a player can do as an option to change up gameplay for yourself just like how RDM/NIN was such good at soloing hard NMs and if your soloing WAR/WHM isn't a bad idea in besieged or campagin or if you are exploring certain areas where sneak/invis are required. That is also why XI was amazing they did not tie you down into certain things they gave you options even if some weren't as good as others.

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

- Gil and crafting, please do not get me started on this.... FF14 does a much better jobs. I don't ever ever need to buy ANYTHING from the auction house if I choose to spend some time getting things and do research on wiki or reddit. All the BiS gears are from actual events you must do and EARN the rewards. Gils are useless unless you want to power level craft and play Animal Crossing FF edition. Oh yeah, and if you want to make relic weapon FAST and skip all the grinding materia by yourself, cuz you know, apparently people really hate grinding but want to have the weapon ASAP now, and yet complaint when originally, at level 90, the relic quest is rather manageable.

My whole point was in XI they had both event gear from endgame content and gear from AH from crafting and if you remember they had abjurations items which required crafters to make cursed gear -1 some of the best gear in game, which actually made all the crafts useful to lv up to create these items and there were certain pieces which were a must to obtain from the AH but in 14 ARR they had basically made the crafting system pointless when you can level them all to the max/gear why even use the AH? That's where gil starts to build up and you start to feel as though it is not needed for anything both of these things were better done in FFXI since 100 was the cap for your main craft and you subcrafts were 50 capped pre-abyssea so you were then given the option to take your fav craft up to 100 while using it to make gil to buy stuff from the other 100 crafters that you did not chose. In 14 Why even lv up any craft all at? there's no point in having alot GIL, it is pointless as there is no need for it in 14 until they have something where you feel like making gil or crafting is used for something that just isn't vanity then crafting becomes useful atm the items you make are pointless except for a few like HQ food or poison potions.

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

- FF11 story is ok, not great but not bad, too many fetch quest just like FF14, but done in far far far far worse style. The amount of time sink for the sake of "well we just wanna make sure you farm random key item for an hour or two" is ridiculous. No thanks. FF14 is far more focused, streamlined and way better, 3.0 is the step in the right direction. FF14 CS blows FF11 out of the water. CoP is the most atrocious expansion ever, one of the worst missions ever designed in a game. Glad they totally nerf this now. All of those complainers about 3.0 content being gated, they must never play CoP on its original state lol. The amount of sadistic torture FFXI implemented to make sure only 10 percent of their player base ever reach Sea is just bad design decision. Here in FF14, you can access all the theme park content once you finish MSQ that is rather easy to do.

You gotta to be kidding me? Too many fetch quests? Going into the promies for the 1st time was such an unique and fantastic experience, the atmosphere of that place was mindblowing as a noob, how about climbing up the mountain in attohwa chasm quest? such an unique and creative way of doing a story quest trying to figure out how to climb up without falling this was fun to figure out, how about going through the temple of Uggalepih? getting lost through the jungle and figuring ur way through the temple using the paintbrush or what about heading towards the shadow lord going through the castle? This was a Journey! An Adventure! You seem to of forgotten the best parts of the story quests.... and what makes RPGs so great, you can't do any of those in 14 which is why 11's is superior, they may of took longer to complete but it felt rewarding to do so I haven't felt any achievement for completing any of the story from the 14 main quest from either ARR or HW most of it feels like filler and you steamroll through it all without any kinda feeling of omg this boss is so powerful making them feel like a truly almightly villain not really sure King Thordan is a god? they didn't make it seem so during the fight as it lacked any kinda of difficulty which dumbs down the overall story of trying to portray them as true evil characters.

As for the endgame being tied to finishing the story in 11 not the best idea but it doesn't make the story any less than it was... and they at least changed this for The ToAU expansion where you didn't need to complete all of it to access those endgame same for SoA expansion etc

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

- FF14 world is far more beautifully designed, very curated, and the creator spend a great deal of time crafting each areas with love. Each is diverse, very immersive and comes alive.

14's world is visually better looking and stunning but better graphics isnt everything as a world itself there is too much tied within dungeons you cannot access to enjoy exploring those whereas in 11 its all interconnected apart from some battlefields. Exploring the world of Vanadiel is miles more better than exploring the world of Eorzea where is the mines to explore? where is the jungle to get lost in? where is all these places where I can get lost in there isn't any in 14 they are all in dungeon form which nobody wants to explore only to complete for exp or for tomestones, you also can't put quests or npcs in those areas as they are dungeons.

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

The music is just as good as FFXI, some music is better here (those primal).

All FF games have good music and it ends up becoming more about taste and not "better"

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

- Dungeons are far nicer here. Mechanic is far better here.

11 didn't have any instance dungeons only battlefields so its not rly the same thing, wheras 14 has instance dungeons but no dungeons outside of DF? and both have their own mechanics which are both enjoyable to play, also don't forget 11 was designed as PS2 game so you are limited into what you can do with mechanics but they still managed to make the fights fun with interesting ways to overcome them.

Originally Posted by Luvbunny

- Currency craziness bonanza that will drives you insane... How many different currency must I keep track.... Nope do not need this bullcrap content. I love how FF14 handles it, TWO currency, period, end of story. Simplicity is VERY VERY hard to do, while keep adding features after features are very easy to do. FF14 is great, keep it simple, accessible and yet has quite depth and nuances.

Well yeah 11 is more than 10yrs old ofc there alot more currency but they actually changed it so that you can see what currency you in your options with updates so its simple to see which currency you have, 14 also has more than 2 currency if you count everything soldiery, law, poetic, wolf marks, gc seals, allied seals, centurio seals, MGP, new crafting and gather currency.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The main thing I like the most about 14 than 11 is the combat its more faster paced and not sluggish but when HW has all the same content systems as what we got in ARR it starts to get to point where we crave for something new and refreshing and so far HW has failed to deliver a new system for endgame content, it's just A Realm Rewritten. I never got this feeling with any of the expansions in 11 it should be the same for 14 but it comes down to lazy development wanting to rehash the same things from 2.0 or their priority of wanting to give flying mount took too much away from actually content that players care about.