Thread: Please help me understand why i should continue to play a repeat of 2.0?

Originally Posted by Aqua_Amaiyo

You're not silly for having an opinion. I'm merely stating its unfair to divide the community that you're saying what happened to. Because if the chance to allow players who don't have the time you do to even scratch the surface to catch up to the rest who DO have the time to play all day, then you'd be doing just that, dividing the community.

As of now you're probably thinking that I'm "attacking" you, which in truth I'm not. I'm merely saying that if you care for the community you speak of, then why divide it?

I disagree.

Is it wrong for someone with more dedication and time to commit to something to have better things attached? This is no different than the trophies and scores of any modern sport, attributed to their larger amount of practice. In the end it amounts to nothing because it all equalizes each time we do a level-cap raise and the process starts over. There's no reason to not play at your own pace, and there's absolutely no punishment mechanic for playing slow. In fact, the game has shown a clear track record for weakening encounters to allow those of lower skill or dedication levels to clear content easily for the same rewards. Even if there are greater rewards down the line, those who are a step behind the bleeding edge do not suffer for it. They are in fact encouraged to try.

The only divide is in how the community treats these facts, and that is irrelevant of the mechanics of the game.

Originally Posted by Aqua_Amaiyo

Then we shall agree to disagree in those terms.

We are disagreeing on platitudes - where I feel if this discussion were to actually involve specifics, we would find ourselves on more common ground. Specifically, what is it about the current iteration that bothers you, and what is it about the policies in place or that you fear would be put into place that bother you specifically? I feel the idea of bantering statements is pointless if we are not going to discuss existing and future mechanics.

This is a modern MMO, not FFXI

Keep in mind, even as a Veteran of FFXI, I do not make this correlation. My preferences in video gaming stand from a library of games that stems beyond FFXI or even the moniker of MMOs. In fact, my example was made specifically using real-life hobby correlations to distinct such. In my opinion, FFXIV stands strongly on its own now as a flagship title within the seriese and can bear the brunt of recommendations derived from other titles without worry of detracting from its own existence.

Two cases in point, we have received both Golden Saucer, and Triple Triad, yet neither of these take away from the identity of FFXIV. Mechanics and ideas from other titles, including FFXI should not be scorned simply on the bases that it is not a FFXIV unique mechanic, but rather the mechanic itself should be weighed and measured on its own merits. What about the FFXI mechanic is bad? (Rather than assuming it's bad just because it's being referenced from FFXIV)

Originally Posted by Aqua_Amaiyo

I don't want to see players who "don't" have that time, punished because they don't.

Again, I see no punishment mechanic in the game for those who don't play frequently. In fact, there is more mechanics that benefit a player that comes in, plays a bit, logs off and waits for the next available day, than anything. Brief-but-frequent seems to best way to play, in fact. However even those who go on hiatus are typically bombarded with catch-up mechanics instilled into the game continually.

When it comes to FFXI, the main "Main" issue I had with XI was the amount of you must be this specific role, and do X amount of damage with X amount of mistakes, with X weapon, etc etc or boot etc etc. And it wasn't an "uncommon" thing, this was happening frequently.

Again, this is a mechanic of the players, not the game, or any game really. You will always encounter this type in the game, this or any others. It's a level of elitism you simply have to separate yourself from. I don't think mechanics from previous games, FFXI included, comes with this attitude-preloaded into it - that's simply the attitude of the players itself. You shouldn't base your logic in opposing something based off of what happened when it was introduced in a fundamentally different game a decade ago.

Hunts, for instance, have the exact opposite problem, buy in large, than a shoving people away from important ranked mobs, we have crowds gathering in excess waiting on still more, while in FFXI, "Claiming" the monster in question was the issue - making it an example of exclusivity to the extreme, rather than inclusiveness to the extreme.

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In the end I don't see the conflict or problem here. Players who are wanting challenge have it, they even have exclusive drops and gear - that will only be helpful in tackling challenges that would still be exclusive. And those challenges are simply additional 'modes' on top of a singular encounter already available for the more casual crowd to experience.

In this situation - stats are merely trophies.

I think our focus should be on how to improve community relations. FFXIV already does a good job of encouraging if not outright forcing players to be charitable.

Originally Posted by Aqua_Amaiyo

This is what I was speaking to them about original, to where they asked in response "is it silly to have an opinion" to which i responded it's not, and also spoke my own opinion as well, to which you (Hyrist) responded to me on. vv

Ah. Well to clarify my perspective, allow me to address the post you linked as well.

Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

This is gonna sound harsh but if someone wants to spend more time on FFXIV than another person he/she should be rewarded and not punished just because someone else got other stuff to do with their life.
I have FFXIV as a hobby sometimes i can play 5h a day sometimes only 2h a day I would never complain over someone who plays more than me and acheives more than me. Instead I want to think hey i wan't to grind and acheive the same thing and not have the mindstate ha what a looser that plays this for 5h a day I'm gonna get the same stuff as him 1month later for half the effort. Where in your mind is this a fair a picture?

Let's talk realities for a moment. The cycle is not 1 month, but rather 3 to 6 months, depending on the specific example.

To that degree the answer to your question would be you have moved onto bigger and better things. More important gear is on the horizon or already in your possession at that point, and you're working to achieve more, with the head-start you've already acquired.

The two advantages to hardcore players at this point is the ability to be well prepared for for the next difficult encounter moving forward, and the ability to rest on their laurels quicker and have more time for other pursuits. This is a fairly nice system that we currently have when you look at it objectively. It has systems in place to appeal to both casual and Hardcore. The question is, where are you losing your drive? Is it because you feel a level of futility in the pursuit of something that becomes obsolete? Or in pursuit of something that becomes accessible once it becomes obsolete? These are two distinct perspectives here and I think it should be clarified.

Originally Posted by Mattia

More like didn't get to finish it.

It's both. The approach Tanka had and the absolute lack of control over his crew were his responsibility and even he acknowledges his failures in this regard. It bloated a development schedule way beyond what was projected or feasible, and built a fundamentally flawed infrastructure that had to be discarded for a new client.

Had it merely been a matter of the game being unfinished, we would have gotten a Client update, not a new client.

Originally Posted by Andevom

And while this is a very good point, it will be thrown out. Why? Because this isn't what people mean by a "challenge". What they want is a shiny thing that 95% of the community wants but can't get.

And there will always be conflict in that regard. To a certain degree, they're entitled to desire such a thing, and it's debatable whether or not sating that desire is healthy for the game overall. There's nothing inherently wrong with the struggle to achieve something great, and loot is a tactile substance that represents that achievement. It's human nature to want that 'thing' that both represents that achievement and rewards it.

We can consider it a character flaw of humanity if we wish - but philosophically I don't view it as a bad thing.

It's when it sours into elitism that becomes a problem, and that is also a construct of the human mind. How we can enable the healthy concept of the first without falling into the easy trap of the second is a pursuit humankind has been struggling to achieve in the entirety of our history. I don't think a video game is going to solve that dilemma. But we can try to compromise.

I feel as if the rotating system we currently have is effective - I do hold a reservation that endgame itself could be broader than simply difficult raids being the only difficult encounters giving out the best gear. I feel there can be alternative methods developed that would benefit those who wish to put in the effort in different means, if but still similar in principle.

Originally Posted by Aqua_Amaiyo

-stuffz-

Where yo sig from?

Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

It wouldnt hurt SE to release certain content and just say OK listen up We finally listened and Yoshi P went Tanaka for once.

That was FFXIV 1.0 and it didn't go very far, only a small portion of the player base were willing to pay for it.
There were some good stuff from 1.0 but it just did not attract as much people as the casual friendly ARR did. You said the game is too easy yet alot of people did not even attempt coil. If you cater only to the hardcore - then you have Wildstar - gone free to play in no time. By the so call "nerf" or echo, it allows the larger population to experience the content (which are typically out of date anyways)