Anyone else think NIN should be able to Goad itself?

[Sylve]

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Not being entirely self sufficient is actually a good thing, surprisingly enough.
That being said, if you're going through 1k TP in less than 2 minutes with natural regen and invig, something seems quite wrong.

Dummy testing is not real combat testing.
Dummies don't fight back, and they don't have phases or periods that slow down your TP consumption. Raid bosses tend to have situations where you break away from the boss, either to avoid AoEs, deal with adds or just Titan-like periods where the boss simply isn't there.

Of course, there are exceptions, like Fractals first 2 bosses, where there is essentially no downtime and you fight for 5 minutes straight. But again, those situations are outside the norm.
Even something as simple as not refreshing GL3 when im low has given my TP time enough to regen to an acceptable state while building the stacks back up. Yes, i take a hit to my DPS to do that, but thats kind of the whole point of the TP system.

The 100 extra TP a DRGs Invig gives isn't the reason why it has less TP trouble than Monks or Ninjas, Its more to do with the slower pace of its damage dealing.
Consider dropping Huton when you feel you're going to run dry on TP. It may sound like a horrible idea, but losing the massive Skill Speed bonus will let your Regen bring your TP up enough to go back to full burst.
TP is intended to inhibit a physical DD from doing 100% DPS all the time no matter what. Its a balance factor.
Some people don't see it, but that's exactly how a Bard and Machinist boost overall DPS for the party. The day they let everyone regulate their own TP is the same day they delete Songs/Promote and beef up their damage to NIN/MNK/DRG levels.

[Adire]

snip.

No...it's not less than 2 minutes. The dragon boss fight can drag on (pun intended) for quite a bit longer than that, and there is no downtime. If group DPS is lacking, it can go on past 2 invigorate CDs. If SE adds more fights like that, NIN in its current state will be TP starved very quickly, even quicker and when the boss has even higher health most likely.

Also, dummy testing can be accurate when compared to certain fights. It simulates a no-downtime boss quite well. Like the dragon, there is no downtime on dummy testing. I think given that SE added Purification in the first place insinuates there may be further TP heavy fights in the near future.

And yeah, I'm aware. I've mentioned a few times now that in addition to the traited invigorate, Dragoon also has a slower skill speed to slow TP burn. DRG's damage is quite on par with monk and NIN now though. They don't need the skill speed to keep the damage up.

[Alacran]

Goad: provoke or annoy (someone) so as to stimulate some action or reaction.
"She goaded her on to more acts of daring through out the fight. "

[Altijacek]

I'm only okay with this if they rename it. Goading yourself sounds like the stupidest thing in the world by definition of the word.

[Adire]

I'm only okay with this if they rename it. Goading yourself sounds like the stupidest thing in the world by definition of the word.

Agreed. They renamed Perfect Dodge though, so I'm sure they aren't above renaming other things

[thunderbreak]

I thought Ninjas can cross class invigorate

[Adventica6]

you're supposed to play with another nin and goad eachother, I never goad anyone else if there is another nin in the group and in return he/she goads me back, there hasn't been much content in the game that has required much goading to be honest, with smart use of invigorate I can go for a long time, if the boss isn't dead under 5-6 minutes you have an actual problem.

I can see goad having massive uses in ex fights etc (hard content only).

[Odstarva]

Monks now have Purification, which will help on longish fights with little downtime if any are coming.

Dragoons have traited Invigorate and lower skill speed than the other two melees.

NINs have only non-traited invigorate for self TP restoring and high skill speed when Huton is up.

It doesn't really seem fair. Even if Bard and Machinist are taken into consideration, NINs are still gimped on self TP restoration vs skill speed.

It sounds to me like you need an Ast to read you a few cards. TP cost reduction cards!

[SuddenStorm8]

Goad is a piece of raid utility, and one that I find is rarely used as it is.
A good NIN will goad a MNK or BRD in their party before they even use their first invig then goad the MT as soon as it comes off cd.
A bad NIN wont use goad unless someone asks for TP.
A terrible NIN wont use goad at all even if someone asks for it.

Unfortunately in any DF group the first of the three examples is beyond rare and if NINs were able to goad themselves the latter two would only use it on themselves.
I think what would work best is making goad more appealing to use beyond helping the team. For example a trait that causes the NIN to gain the effect of goad at 50% effectiveness when used on a party member (Call it Goading as they are goading an ally on or something) and as the NIN will get this every time they use goad (where as you will be using goad on different party members each time) it will be as if they could goad themselves.

[Altena]

a trait that causes the NIN to gain the effect of goad at 50% effectiveness when used on a party member

This would be gold, in all honesty. Not only would it encourage the use of Goad, but it would also improve NIN's TP starvation issues (which are very real in fights that are worth a damn).