Poor Decision making? (Spoilers)

[tkcrispy]

So, this has been bugging me for a while now.

Why did the archbishop summon King Thordan? Now to be clear, I DID enjoy the Thordan fight and all. However we've been told over and again that both a large amount of Prayer and Aether are required. The Archbishop claims that the transformation was powered by a 1000 or so years of prayer and the power of the eye. Now unless I've missed a MAJOR detail, this is clearly not true. At no point has any characters mentioned Thordan with any benevolence, if anything he appears to be treated as a "cool" myth and people only talk about him when directly asked about it.

Normally this wouldn't bother me so much.

However, there IS a suitable "Person" who seemed to be ripe for the summoning. This person has and still is worshiped to this day by many Ishgardians. Characters also often pray to this person (off-handedly i'll admit) at multiple points during the MSQ. It just seems so obvious to me that Halone would be primal of choice for Ishgard. To be completely honest I was completely convinced we would face Halone at some point in the MSQ due to talk of primal summoning and more than a few lingering shots of Halone statues (Did no one else see this as some serious fore-shadowing?). Hell, i'm fairly sure the Archbishop had 2 of them in his office (that were practically always in frame).

So all in all,
How strong was ArchThordan with the serious lack of Prayer?

Do you think we could have beaten Halone?

Why Thordan over Halone?

Considering Thordan's worship is seemingly non-existent, how on earth did the Heavens' Ward manage to summon individual Knights Twelve? Where was their Aether supply?

Was the Archbishop uncomfortable in becoming a female primal?

Or perhaps he wanted to be a King more than he wanted to get the job done right?

Or perhaps like every other Mistery in FFXIV, it was the Allagans?

[Rhaja]

I'm going to just lay the sad truth on the table

It was all for the Knights of the Round reference. Whole thing.

[FrejyaAthenes]

Probably because Thordan I and the Knights Twelve were more revered since they were national heroes. Then again I'm not well versed on the lore of the Twelve so I figured they were like modern religion. Y'know, maybe their real, maybe they're not. Or I'm just rping an aethiest much better than I expected.

[Cilia]

Without more information, the best we can do is speculate.

Thordan I is, at the very least, considered the benevolent progenitor of Ishgard before we exposed the lie. During that time people fought in his name, despite praying to Halone for deliverance. It's not impossible to think many prayed to Thordan himself, if covertly.

Halone is also suggested to be a genuine goddess (maybe), not a primal. Of course there's always "summoning Halone as a primal," but that wouldn't be the "real" Halone. Primals also have their own will and agenda unless summoned into a(n Echo-possessing) mortal vessel, so a "primal Halone" wouldn't necessarily behave in a predictable or controllable manner. Summoning Thordan and his Knights Twelve as primals made the Archbishop and the Heavens' Ward into realized, ideal images of famous historical figures - the heroes of legend come back to end what they began. It's a great PR move to those ignorant to the truth.

Directly answering the questions:

1. King Thordan was probably the strongest primal we've faced to date, somehow using the backlog of prayer from the Dragonsong War and Nidhogg's right eye for sustenance.

2. It depends? A war goddess, maybe not. If it were a primal, it's just a matter of how much aether and prayer is sustaining her, and how powerful we are.

3. PR (see above). Alternatively, mayhap Thordan VII loves Halone too much to desecrate her with a primal summoned in her image, even knowing primals are just shades of mortal desires made manifest?

4. Given the heavy Ascian involvement in Thordan's plan, anything is possible. Perhaps they taught the Heavens' Ward to believe in themselves enough to manifest a primal in the image of one of the Knights Twelve, and the entire lot could only manifest themselves with Nidhogg's eye providing the aether?

5. Maybe? Considering what he knows about primals, it's probable he just selected someone (or something) to summon that's good for PR (see above).

6. He does ramble at length about becoming a god-king... perhaps, but I don't know.

7. Not always Allagans. Sometimes it's the Ascians.

[Causality]

It's a matter of the religion itself.

Halone, according to lore, demands strength and self sufficiency of her followers and the Knights of the Heavensward and the Archbishop are charged with guiding and guarding the Papacy followed then by Aymeric and his Temple Knights. While they may pray to Halone for guidance and Strength, they Pray that The Archbishop, Their Leader, Sends his Knights of The Heavensward to save them when the Temple Knights have failed (ie the dragons made it into the city).

To the average Ishgardian the Heavensward and not Halone (of whom they believe would tell them to pick up a sword and fight for themselves) are their only hope.

[Wintersandman]

I don't believe he was summoning Thordan as he is Thordan. He was naming himself King and using the power of the Eye to bolster his power.

[Whiteroom]

I may be mistaken, but did he not just turn himself into a primal, not summon thordan? He retained his own conscience it seems, rather than taking on that of the primals. It seemed a twisted summoning at best, given that he became the primal, rather than creating it. Its not inconceivable that there was a good amout of prayer directed to the archbishop himself. But I am fairly new to the loore forums and still picking stuff up.

[myahele]

I personally believe that the "experiments" that Lahabrea has done was all for this moment; especially since now we know they were allied with each other for years

1. Artificially (?) giving the echo to someone who never had it: Sahagin Priest
2. Using oneself as sacrifice for a stronger/ EX primal (this is kinda reaching out there)
3. Echo users becoming a vessel for a primal: Ysayle/Shiva

The Archbishop/ Heavensward seems to have been "farming" the populace for prayers: purposely letting in the heretics so they can cause havoc

[Velox]

I may be mistaken, but did he not just turn himself into a primal, not summon thordan? He retained his own conscience it seems, rather than taking on that of the primals. It seemed a twisted summoning at best, given that he became the primal, rather than creating it. Its not inconceivable that there was a good amout of prayer directed to the archbishop himself. But I am fairly new to the loore forums and still picking stuff up.

It's no different than what Ysayle did with Shiva though. Summoning by using one's body as a host is a very new concept that we still don't know a lot about. That being said, we do know that the summoner retains his/her own influence over the power they are given. Instead of having a dog on a leash, it allows for complete control (and thus, can be much, much more destructive in the wrong hands).

[Zohar_Lahar]

One thing I noticed is that the archbishop seemed to fully understand what primals actually are, and exploited it to the fullest. Whereas Ysayle mistakenly thought she was reincarnated Shiva, Thordan knew that what he was summoning was the power of myth, and planned to game the system as a means of becoming God-King. He did it so well, he even took out Lahabrea for us in an ironic end.

As for why Knights of the Round, remember that the Archbishop had a praetorian guard of twelve knights styled after King Thordan's original twelve knights. This was simply the most convenient mechanism to utilize the nature of primals.