Thoughts from a 60 AST & 60 WHM

[Menardy]

Part 2:


Btw it seems I'm the only AST around who never ever had any mana problems at all.
So for me, mana management/recovery can stay as it is now, but there really has to be done something about emergency moments when you really have to heal a lot.

I'm also a bit curious what the devs thought about Collective Unconcious and Celestial Opposition.
The first one is just dumb. Noone in a Raid has time to just stand around doing nothing. I'm fine with standing around, but please let us do actions/spells during that time...
And yeah...CO sounds to me like "oh we forgot a CC, lets put a stun one the 60 skill".

All in all I like AST, except for the healing potency...it's just too low imo and I don't think I can heal Alexander Savage with it.

[SuzakuCMX]

Where is AST weak?
-In Diurnal Sect, base healing potency is low if you don't count regens, which can make it hard to stabilize a tank from low HP or keep a tank stabilized under heavy damage (extremely noticeable in dungeons if tank is using STR accessories)
-Have to rely on RNG to reduce damage on tanks (Bole vs. E4E or Virus vs. Disable).
-Disable is lame because it can get wasted on an auto-attack.
-In Nocturnal Sect, the shield on Aspected Spells is so weak as to be nearly useless. Not only is it weaker than Adloquium (262.5 = 525 Total vs. 300 = 600 Total) at base, it also lacks the ability to crit for double shield. The result is you spend 2x the mana of a Benefic for a weak shield that will drop after one hit of almost anything. At least it's instant.
-RNG is RNG and therefore you sometimes get screwed on cards (Spire -> RR -> Draw Spire -> Shuffle -> Draw Spire....).
-Celestial Opposition is underwhelming for a level 60 skill with a 150s recast time. Yay, you get 5 more seconds of a buff every 2 and a half minutes....the stun is only 4 seconds.
-Nocturnal Collective Unconscious is very underwhelming as well. I suppose you COULD stack it with an AoE Bole and/or Sacred Soil, but then you'd be in Nocturnal Stance with a SCH and your shields don't stack so you're screwed anyways.
-The SoS copy that is actually worse than SoS is very bad for MP management because WHM have abilities that increase their mana efficiency on top of getting another MP Management tool. AST has to rely on RNG to get Ewers to maintain MP.

Where is AST good?
-Benefic -> ED -> Enhanced Benefic II is a great way to get your tank out of low HP: it's something like 1400 Potency in healing depending on the ED scaling. Save your Enhanced Benefic II procs!
-It's never boring as an AST because there's only 30 seconds of downtime between deciding what to do with cards\
-Nothing feels as good as AoE on Arrow/Balance during a burn phase.
-Spreading a card that you feel you may need later or want to use a RR on feels very good when you get to pull it out of your pocket and go "A-HA! KNEW IT!" though I usually have to spread an Ewer so I can use it on myself when I need to start spamming Benefic II.
-Synastry helps with keeping the tank topped up and saving on MP when another party member takes damage you have to heal.
-Essential Dignity being on a low cooldown is very helpful and makes it quite good for when you slack a bit on healing
-Accuracy-less DoTs, heeey!
-It's fun and versatile

What could be changed?
-Celestial Opposition needs something more. Maybe more stun duration and lower CD.
-Base cure potencies should be about as good as WHM before factoring in Noct/Di bonuses because we lack the ability to buff our output like the other healers do. Something like 390/640 potency on Benefic/Benefic II.
-Aspected Benefic Shields should be able to double in crit considering they still are about 40 potency weaker than SCH and we lack Lustrate, E4E, Virus, Fairy healing, Fairy buffs, etc.
-All buffs should last 20s by default.
-AoEing a Card should reduce potency by 30%, not 50%.
-Bole/Balance should double potency instead of +50%
-Nocturnal Collective Unconscious should apply a stacking 200 potency shield every 3 seconds.
-Please reduce cooldown of Luminiferaligatorbootylicious Aether to 90s

[Rewind]

After playing WHM/SCH since launch in 2.0 I’ve begun to test out AST in a semi-raid environment. One thing to make clear is that Alexander is super easy with a static (From the perspective of an experienced raider). I remember spending hours, if not days, on ADS turn 2 because of instant wipe mechanics, heavy damage and general mistakes. Alexander is a walk in the park, maybe not as easy as the 2.0 scenario dungeons but not far off the first timers’ difficulty either.

Whilst I agree that the way in which cards function needs to be revised (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...83#post3109683) and some spells (aka collective unconscious and nocturnal stance…), AST is an overall decent (not perfect, not amazing) healer for Alexander normal raids.

What becomes more apparent in alexander, is the mistakes (most often stupid mistakes) that other players and I made during the encounters and how AST deals with them. AST is not built to heal through stupidity of yourself and other players.
Diurnal AST healing is all about sustaining players through damage rather than responding to damage, even more so than SCH which is traditionally viewed as preparing for damage. It has relatively no impactful response (and cost effective response) for dealing with:

• Players taking excessive damage from a poorly executed mechanic
• Players (tanks) not using cooldowns correctly (too late or not accommodating for latency)
• Other healers not using their utility to the best of their ability or mis-prioritizing heals
• Players incorrectly handling mechanism
• Players not acknowledging their HP and jumping into a ‘dangerous’ situation (absorbing orbs, dpsing adds which emit localized aoe damage)

WHM and SCH (with eos/selene) have the heal potency to heal through mistakes like this or atleast stabilize so that the fight can continue. AST has little ability to recover from one-two important death (e.g a tank or healer) whilst other impactful mechanics continue to hit.

In Diurnal stance the potency of aspected helios is strong enough to sustain through mild aoe damage and weak enough to be rolling on raid for almost the entirety of a fight without pulling hate. Aspected Benefit can save a DPS that has taken excessive damage from an aoe ability, healing them sufficiently for the initially effect and healing them to full over time.

Does that mean everything is fine with AST? Probably not - I think about my AST healing in first coil 2.0, I feel like it would work fine in a competent group. That would be assuming that all players were privy to the fight and could play their own class to perfection. In reality there are going to be things that ruin that whether it is just bad play, latency or RNG.

[Blueyes]

Another problem I noticed with AST is level 50 content. They have no way to help mitigate incoming damage on the tank and party.

I do want to comment on this as I do believe there is a way to help with that along with addressing another issue. For starters, I want to comment on the lack of AoE damage any sooner than level 52. To be perfectly honest it's one of the things that most annoys me about the job. When I tried to figure out why the job lacked a means for AoE damage at level 50 I noticed that their ability list is rather tightly packed due to having four abilities slots taken up by actions related to the Draw mechanic. Gravity simply didn't make the cut and believe this also related to why the job seems to be lacking in useful cooldowns. This isn't necessarily a problem as long as they pack the most into the abilities that we do have, but in some cases that isn't what they've done.

Let's look at a few specific spells. Malefic is mostly the same as the Stone spell, but with the Heavy effect lifted and given to a completely different spell that has no function beyond the Heavy effect which is Stella. What White Mage can do with one spell, Astrologian gets two. Stella becomes a waste of a spell when you consider how it's utility could have easily been applied directly to Malefic. Stella should have been made into something much more useful, such as an AoE DoT spell that won't be immediately replaced by Gravity at later levels.

But let's take it another step. Astrologian is probably the closest we're going to get to Time Mage with them having access to Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition. With that said, it surprises me that not a single one of their spells apply the Slow effect. Once again I find myself looking towards Stella as a way to incorporate that. In combination with making it AoE DoT it would be even better if it applied a Slow effect as well, essentially turning it into their own version Shadow Flair, but behaving like Aero III in execution. The Slow effect won't help much against enemies immune to Slow, but it mostly just bothers me that Stella is nothing more than a filler spell when it could have been something much more useful.

TLDR: Give Malefic the 40% Heavy effect and change Stella into an AoE DoT around the target with an added 5% Slow effect, giving AST a way to deal AoE damage at lower levels (that will still be useful and viable even after learning Gravity) while adding a tool to help them mitigate incoming damage.

[GideonHighmourn]

Does that mean everything is fine with AST? Probably not - I think about my AST healing in first coil 2.0, I feel like it would work fine in a competent group. That would be assuming that all players were privy to the fight and could play their own class to perfection. In reality there are going to be things that ruin that whether it is just bad play, latency or RNG.

I'm not quoting you to single you out, as this is what my general consensus is with AST, as well.

However ... In that same scenario, why wouldn't you bring SCH to heal the fight over AST? They literally offer every utility AST does (aside from CD reduction, which is mildly iffy at best, and MP/TP reduction, which is not necessary at all) more reliably, along with more healing output (synastry is like a faerie on CD) and better emergency cooldowns (especially now with Indom, ET, and DT).

AST doesn't offer anything (considerable) that SCH doesn't offer on their own in terms of utility, and nothing a WHM can offer in terms of throughput.

AST could heal the fight if everyone is playing perfectly, yes; however, AST doesn't offer anything to the group that SCH can't bring to the table without RNG involved. SCH would allow for wiggle room on mechanics, AND bring more utility to the table than AST. WHM would allow for considerably more wiggle room than AST or SCH, but not bring as much in terms of utility.

Right now, SCH+WHM is still the powerhouse combo for content. AST is only there if a WHM/SCH isn't available or if someone fancies tarot card RNG mechanics. It is numerically weaker compared to SCH/WHM in almost every way.

[SuzakuCMX]

*snip*

MP/TP Management has always been huge in end-game raids when you first start. PDPS (aside from MNK) and tanks will TP out after about 4 minutes on their own; you can extend that with Spires and Spears and Ewers on the healers or DRK will be great.

AST is just lacking the ability to stabilize the party after flubs and missteps, which, I assume, will be most of what will hold them back from end-game. Especially Nocturnal Stance is hurting right now because Collective Unconscious is severely lacking as a 90s cooldown for Noct, and the weakness of the Aspected Shields makes it an MP waste most of the time when you could have just brought a SCH who has better emergency healing, better overall healing, and better mitigation utility via Virus, E4E, and fairy buffs on top of Adlo crit shields for mitigation.

In my opinion all AST really needs is some base potency buffs on Benefic/Benefic II to level the playing field and change potency on Noct Benefic and let it double shield on crit. Maybe lower CD of Lumin Aether or increase potency as well. Everything else will be cake, because it's primarily a healing class and it falls short in that regard compared to WHM/SCH

[GideonHighmourn]

MP/TP Management has always been huge in end-game raids when you first start. PDPS (aside from MNK) and tanks will TP out after about 4 minutes on their own; you can extend that with Spires and Spears and Ewers on the healers or DRK will be great.

Doesn't seem to be the case, so far in Alexander. Even if it is later, it's far more reliable just to use MCH turret or BRD song. They give up so much in order to offer such a small, short, RANDOM boost to a single party member compared to what SCH brings.

20% reduction for 15s on a single target isn't going to make or break a DPS check, period. Especially since you can't RELY on them drawing it enough times for it to actually matter.

[SuzakuCMX]

Doesn't seem to be the case, so far in Alexander. Even if it is later, it's far more reliable just to use MCH turret or BRD song. They give up so much in order to offer such a small, short, RANDOM boost to a single party member compared to what SCH brings.

20% reduction for 15s on a single target isn't going to make or break a DPS check, period. Especially since you can't RELY on them drawing it enough times for it to actually matter.

Alexander is NOT a real end-game raid. It is an entry-level raid designed to allow people to gear up for savage and progress the story. Go back to the coils and ask progression groups on Day 1 how hard it was to manage MP and TP until they started getting better gear. There is a reason BRD has almost always been brought to raids.

It might not make or break a DPS check, but it will take pressure off your DPS and allow them to perform better. You get 8 Draws in the 4 minutes it takes them to TP out; you are likely to get at least one Spire or Ewer in there, and I'm highly suspicious most of the people complaining about AST MP management being awful are people who RR an Ewer until they are almost out of MP.

[GideonHighmourn]

Alexander is NOT a real end-game raid. It is an entry-level raid designed to allow people to gear up for savage and progress the story. Go back to the coils and ask progression groups on Day 1 how hard it was to manage MP and TP until they started getting better gear. There is a reason BRD has almost always been brought to raids.

You are entirely missing the point by pointing backwards in time at content that's no longer relevant. AST cannot possibly replace either BRD or MCH in terms of MP/TP consumption/restoration utility; so, why bring AST (for MP/TP like you suggest), since BRD/MCH is likely going to be there anyways?

Sorry, but even in Savage Alex, AST's RNG'd 20% reduction to TP cost for 15s on a single target isn't going to buy them a spot in a static group over SCH/WHM.

[SuzakuCMX]

*snip*

You're right, it's not necessary. I didn't say it was. I just thought you were severely underplaying the power of a cost reduction buff. It's a huge help, and it lasts for 20 seconds, not 15. It's not going to buy them a spot unless they have a baseline healing, which they currently don't. But if they can baseline heal about the same as SCH/WHM and provide a range of powerful buffs on top of that, then they can vie for a spot. Right now they can't, because they just don't even have as powerful healing as either WHM/SCH.