Why people says AST is bad?

[jgg1988]

Hello!

Im reading some posts and i can't believe what people says...AST bad healer? Is this serious? Cmon... Yeah you cant heal like a WHM and can't shield like a SCH but you can choose 1 stance, shields or regens, also you can buff with a really good buffs for your party, give damage, defense, atack speed, less mp/tp cost, less cd... With nocturnal stance you can shield someone without any CD... insta shields, you can heal 2 tanks at the same time with Synastry, yes long CD but you can do it. Have nice AOE heals, Helios for more healing or Aspected helios for AOE heal + regen/shield.

Maybe people complains because they cant stop comparing AST with whm and sch, then what they expected? AST = lots of AOE heals, lots of shields + lots of buff ? No way.

My ast is only 53 but that is enough for see his potential. In my opinion AST dont need a buff/nerf, is fine right now...

[Crevox]

Because the buffs are too weak, random, and situational.

Even Selene's consistent haste buff trumps it, on top of any DPS gain granted by AST being void due to the fact they do lower DPS than WHM and SCH.

Their healing is weaker than the other two healers, but for nothing in return. At the moment, the buffs are not potent enough, too random to be consistently decent at the current potency, and there are too many that are too situational and usually end up useless. On top of all that, their MP efficiency is the worst, and they don't have the great cooldowns other healers have.

AST is not "bad", but it's weaker than the other two healers, with nothing granted in return.

If you want a more indepth analysis, for example on further things like Nocturnal Sect and Lightspeed, go read other posts if you're so confused as to why people think it needs changes.

[Seryl199]

It's not that Astrologian is a bad healer, it's a nuanced healer that requires a lot of planning, smart application of Draws, it's unforgiving for patching up serious missteps, and generally requires a lot of work to be about as good as other healers. If you don't plan or Draw well, and people are making mistakes, that's when AST becomes difficult to play.

I, for one, really want the oGCD abilities of AST to stand out more than its ability to heal, including Draw. AST has a lot of abilities it uses that are instant cast, Aspected Benefic gets frequent use, instant cast DoT's, Enhanced Benefic II, Lightspeed casts (this has it's own problems, but nevertheless allows for instant cast spells with oGCD opportunities), Swiftcast. There are so many opportunities where AST can start popping buffs without slowing down its healing tempo in the slightest, and have high mobility at the same time. It's just that the payoff isn't often worth the effort of setting up a chain of instant casts, I end up just Drawing oGCD, or popping Luminiferous Aether. I haven't gotten these abilities yet, but Time Dilation seems pretty useful, though I've heard, and can see why, that Collective Unconscious leaves a lot to be desired, and Celestial Opposition seems wonky and underwhelming.

On the subject of card buffs, I think they're mostly fine. What I'd like to see for them is minor tweaks, not to buff the cards necessarily, but to make them less situational. Since RNG is such a prevalent factor when Drawing, and Drawing is the main caveat of AST, it shouldn't find itself in a scenario where its Draw is useless. Every card should have an application once you start combat.

Spire is one of the main offenders here, I curse it every time I'm solo and I Draw it when RR is already prepped, Shuffle it away and Draw it again. I know that's a shared pain, and it's frustrating to use two CD's, one of which is a 90 sec CD, and still end up with a useless Draw. Even in dungeons, the chance that your tanks or DPS will run into TP issues during the window that you Draw Spire is quite slim, and if they're already desperately low, all you can do is ease their pain while they wait for in combat ticks to replenish TP, it doesn't refresh anything. Maybe it would be useful in Alexander, to save your BRD some time spent in Paeon, but it's not something you can rely on.

Ewer is good on a BLM, or if you find yourself shouldering a heavy rez burden, but I dislike using cards on myself, since my abilities should be enough to sustain me so that I can hand out buffs to others instead. Again, it's a situation where the card is only strong in specific scenarios, Drawing it without a BLM around usually means you put it on yourself, which means it's at least a full minute before you end up handing out a buff to someone else, more so if something is RR'd. It's a card that can always be played, but not always meaningfully.

I've seen others suggest that these cards should refresh TP/MP instead of reduce the cost, which would help make them less situational, since replenishing resources is always useful, as opposed to cost reduction where you need to apply it preemptively, and its value is only as high as the cost of what you use. It would make it less painful to use Ewer on myself, since Luminiferous Aether is the only other way to recover MP, and would allow me to be a little more aggressive in either DPS or potentially overhealing without needing to apply Ewer first, a later Draw would help just as much as a preemptive one. However, this still leaves Spire in hanging in the balance, since TP based classes are often able to manage their TP without difficulty outside of AoE or protracted battles. Again, will probably prove more useful in raids.

Spear is another card that's not quite up to par. 20% reduction of cooldown time is quite strong. This is a card I will use on myself with no other target available, and it's a card I've had great effect with when used on DPS that are aware of what I'm doing. However, DPS aren't going to hold buffs for Spear, neither will tanks, and you can't rely on RNG to have Spear up, or even to have it Spread, when you reach a burn phase where CD's will get used. Having it effect CD's already in use would be more of a buff than a tweak, but will go a long way towards making the card less situational and making it one of AST's stronger cards.

I like Bole how it is, though others are less fond of it, due to when you're going to need a defensive buff, you probably need it now, not when you happen to Draw it by chance. The way I see it, someone is always going to be taking damage in battle. If you happen to draw it before a spike damage mechanic, you can apply it to save the tank a CD, or soften a blow even further so that patching up is smoother. Worst case scenario, you Draw it in a lull, put it on the tank, and DPS, or minimize healing to restore MP.

Balance and Arrow are considered by and far the best draws. These cards effect the battle every time you draw them. The feeling that you get when you Draw them, "Great! How can I use this to our best advantage," should be the feeling you get whenever you Draw. Even if the cards end up tweaked an entirely different way, it should be something you can Shuffle off, and not be upset to see if it turns up in another Draw or two.

TL;DR:

Their healing is weaker than the other two healers, but for nothing in return. At the moment, the buffs are not potent enough, too random to be consistently decent at the current potency, and there are too many that are too situational and usually end up useless.

AST is not "bad", but it's weaker than the other two healers, with nothing granted in return.

Also, Crevox's longer post echoes a lot of similar points, had I noticed it before posting.

[Lorielle]

Keep in mind people exaggerate. However, there are some places AST COULD use a buff or two.

[Sleigh]

In the healing department it's a poor man's WHM (no Divine Seal, less potencies, no C3, weaker Regen) and a very poor man's SCH (SCH in general trumps AST's shield stance by far due to the fairy and how good Adlo and the new 3.0 tools are). The cards, beneficial as they are, are AST's only real saving grace, and it doesn't seem wise to me to use AST in new content where healing power > support buffs.

Just my take on it.

[Tevare]

I've been a level 60 AST for a while and I feel as a healer who has played SCH and WHM that I'm simply holding a group back. My buffs feel like they make no difference, and when it comes to healing at 60 if you get paired with a WHM you just feel shabby. I love the class and will stay with it, but some abilities need to be able to be used. Like Collective Unconscious is a good example. When do you honestly have time to just sit around and not move or cast in a fight? But like I said I do love the idea of the class and will continue to play.

[Luthvian]

To be honest I don't think it's really fair for you to make the conclusion that AST doesnt need buffs when you are not yet 60 and haven't done end game content. Sure, it is a viable healer for content, even powerful IF you get the right cards at the right time. However, balancing the healing abilities on the best case scenario is not very fair because what are the chances of you getting the right card at the right time all the time?

Much has been said about minor adjustments needed for the class to be a bit more comfortable. Nobody is expecting the AST to heal on the same level as a WHM/SCH but the class should be balanced based on their averagw performance statistically rather than on the potential of what they are capable of should the stars align.

[Crevox]

getting the right card at the right time all the time?

Even if you did, it's calculated to only be like a 1-3% increase in party DPS, provided you even actually focus on damage cards and get that lucky. Selene is just better at this, and Scholar is a better healer.

-Bole: Too random to rely on to survive fights. Ultimately all you're doing is slightly fixing your healing handicap by making it easier to heal the tank, making your job easier. This defeats the purpose of being Astrologian in the first place, as you're not really buffing people or supporting them, you're just easing the healing potency handicap you have for being an AST slightly. Better to burn it with Royal Road for the best Royal Road bonus to combine with Time Dilation, because you won't want to burn Balance for that bonus. It has potential to increase the time you can spam Gravity/dps on pulls, but not by much.

-Spear: Too gimmicky. There's no guarantee ever that whoever you throw it at will even use abilities, and they shouldn't go out of their way to USE abilities outside of proper timings just because the cooldowns are lower. If someone's ability isn't on cooldown (say, Raging Strikes) it's probably for good reason -- they're probably saving it for a burst moment coming up or to synergize into their rotation. Even if you do actually reduce its cooldown, are they even going to need it to be reduced? Will they actually use it again in that extra little time window that it's now up before it would have been, or hold it for when it makes the most sense in their rotation/the encounter? Ultimately it more than likely won't grant an entire extra use during the fight, so what was the point? Even under optimal scenarios, it remains "meh" at best. Better to burn it for the AoE bonus, as you would never burn an Arrow. Of course, you would only do that in an 8 man party, because it's terrible to use the AoE bonus in a 4 man party. It's just a total decrease in value. In a 4 man party, as long as you're not wasting a Royal Road, just use it; otherwise, throw it away. Some people recommend using it on your Luminiferous Aether, but again, that ability should be kept on cooldown anyways (especially if you have the mana problems that most Astrologians say they have), and the card has to pop up in a situation where it won't waste a Royal Road.

-Spire: In the majority of fights, TP is not a problem; even if it was, they wouldn't be relying on *you* to fix it, due to how random the chance of getting this card is. None of the fights are long enough or taxing enough on people's TP in most scenarios, especially now in the expansion. 99% of the time, even if you used it, it would make absolutely no difference; if they weren't going to run out of TP before you used it, they still won't, so what did you accomplish? It's useful in dungeons for physical DPS who spam AoE, but you have to:
1. Have the card ready BEFORE an AoE pull
2. Have a physical DPS that will actually spam AoEs and could benefit from the TP
3. Have the mobs live long enough for it to matter
4. Have it be a larger DPS bonus for them to use that extra TP over just getting a damage boost from balance/arrow
... and then what, you allowed them to use their weaponskill one more time, maybe two if you're lucky? And then you ended up not burning it for the Royal Road, which is arguably a better use for it on something like haste. This card could be decent, but it would be more usable if it was at least a Regain effect, but in the majority of scenarios and fights in the game, it's just not useful. You'll draw it and draw it and draw it in situations where no one will even benefit from the TP, at all (for example, any dungeon boss).

-Ewer: Same situation as Bole really. All you're doing is slightly mitigating your own class handicap if you use it on yourself and making your job easier, instead of supporting your party. You could be burning this for double duration, or using it on someone like the Summoner or Black Mage provided you don't have a good Royal Road buff already that you'll waste (because it would be better to just use it on Balance or Arrow). This card still does have applications; it's not like the mana is bad. You can always make use of mana somehow, just as long as it doesn't negatively affect your ability to use the better card buffs (spoiler: it probably will).

-Balance & Arrow: Both great. Just keep drawing and hope you get one, then use proper card strategy. Hold it in your spread until you get a good Royal Road, then time it up with Time Dilation and/or Celestial Opposition with other people's self buffs/a moment where you need more DPS. Ultimately, if using other cards means wasting a Royal Road bonus that you could be using on these, then it's not worth using those cards, because they're just not good enough in comparison. These cards are ALWAYS useful, and then present opportunities in fights where burst DPS is required for even more usefulness. The other cards are far too situational, or weak for reasons I already stated. I'm not saying that these cards are super amazing, but they're still the best choices we have. Their potency is still far too low to make a noticeable difference in most cases.

All in all, the more you play Astrologian, and the more access to skills you get, the more you realize how weak the buffs really are. The optimal strategy involves just drawing and throwing away cards the entire fight to set up for a crucial card use, like Balance or Arrow on a burst DPS phase, and then holding them until that moment. Because the cards are so random, you can't guarantee that you will get the card again when you'll need it, and you want to keep it for when you're going to need it. Even then, who is to say it will even make the difference, due to how weak they are? Again, Selene is consistent, reliable, and will ultimately result in more DPS, unless you get REALLY LUCKY on your card draws, and you KNOW you're going to get really lucky on future draws that you're willing to use your Balances and Arrows when they're not crucial (before burst DPS moments) because you know you're going to get another one for those crucial, beneficial moments in fights. This is the best way at the moment to squeeze the little value that exists out of these buffs, especially because it allows you to ensure that you'll be able to use it with Time Dilation and/or Celestial Opposition, and optimize the setup you worked so hard through the RNG to acquire.

And that's why the cards are not good right now. They need changes.

[Viviza]

The basic heals aren't bad at all. At a glance the potency values are a little lower, but AST gets stance bonuses to offset that. Aspected benefic is interesting and instant.

But the card system feels limp. You MIGHT get something useful, and when you do, it won't be all that good anyway. An empowered balance card is nice, but work through the math - your odds of seeing it and the actual gain - and the figures aren't impressive. AST spends several of its abilities on manipulating this card system, so it's more than just a perk, it's a feature of the job.

If I'm gambling I want the payoff to be substantial when it works out. And if the payoff isn't substantial, I want to be able to control it.

[RichardButte]

All in all, the more you play Astrologian, and the more access to skills you get, the more you realize how weak the buffs really are.

Pretty much exactly my issue with AST. Someone calculated it out and even drawing a Balance every single time only results in ~1.66% increase in overall DPS, which is less than a SCH using Selene (which good SCHs do, BTW).

I love the fuck out of the playstyle of AST, but the cards just need more oomph and some of the other abilities could use some tweaks.

It seems like they tried to make AST a "run n' gun" style healer, which is AWESOME and can totally work as a playstyle if done right, but I would tweak a few things in order to really make that work better...

I would tweak Lightspeed to reduce the GCD as well and I would change CU to allow the AST to move while channeling it. It's a great ability but it flies in the face of the style of a mobile healer.

Also, the current status of Spear is that it's bugged: it's supposed to reduce the remaining duration of ACTIVE cooldowns in addition to reducing the cooldowns of abilities used while under its effects, which will take it from being the worst card in the deck to the best.

In fact, Spear will be HUGELY impactful once that's fixed, and I think all of the cards need to have a similar level of usefulness and versatility.

Balance: 10% to damage AND healing (including tank self healing). Maybe also that you receive 5% of the damage you do back as healing.

Bole: 10% damage reduction and heals 10% HP over the duration.

Spire/Ewer: RESTORES MP/TP instead of just reducing the cost, since reducing the cost means nothing if you're running out of AoEs or get stunned, etc. If it restores resources, it's beneficial in either circumstance. Also, restore 15% HP over 20 seconds.

Arrow: Increase attack speed by 10% and increase movement speed by 20%. Hey, they're either gonna be using abolities or running from AoE, and this covers both bases (or they might be stunned, in which case Arrow won't help)

Spear: Nothing needs changing once the bug is fixed.

The cards just need to be more versatile, and in that versatility will be found the reason to bring ASTs along in place of the more reliable healing of SCH/WHM.