Why are bards / Mechanists so... Sensitive? <_<

[KylePearlsand]

I get fussed at by BRDs and MCHs for even suggesting that BRD and MCH may need buffing.

It's like some people are in complete denial that anything is wrong at all. Maybe they don't want to admit to themselves that they chose a sub par job, who knows.

Yeah, denial is definitely the word for it. Most Bards and Machinists I run into, including myself, acknowledge this fact.

[Sessurea]

Because brds can't get used to the idea that tanks do the same dmg now. 123123 pld does 900 dps with war debuff gg se wp. For some reason ppl think tanks should be trash tier dmg. Even though it was like this in arr, it was something I could never understand. Sure tank dps is nice now, wont last long w/o a brd though at least in the case for u ez mode plds. And b4 some clown says nin goad , the nin needs paeon more than any other class in the game.

Wow look at that, I got a bit sensitive there too I guess =/ lol

Buff brd or riot!

[Welsper59]

The primary difference right now as to why certain sayings for other jobs (e.g. loldrg) are perceived as not a big deal is because of potential. Right now, BRD and especially MCH, are pointless. DRG, SMN, etc were always decent for their role. Stereotypes often plagued them, but a good one always pushed through very well. It was the existing potential to do your role well and be competitive that made the stereotype nothing more than a joke based on humorous experience.

Such potential does not exist with MCH and BRD... no matter how good you are, you will never perform your role anywhere near as well as other jobs, including from tanks lol! Remember too, there is NO SUCH THING AS A SUPPORT ROLE. Even the idea of "support DPS" is nothing more than an idea of something that does not exist. So unless Yoshi-P was wrong in his statements about his own game, or he's beginning to go senile about his perspectives of the holy trinity, there needs to be a huge change to the perspective of BRD (and indirectly MCH). The larger amount of self/party utility abilities being given to other jobs diminishes the importance of songs as time goes on. If BRD and MCH, in this game, are performing worse (or equal to) tanks and significantly lower than other DPS, then that's not much different than a NIN, DRG, BLM, etc in the same position. I'm quite sure people would be in an uproar about that.

Currently, there is zero need for songs from BRD. When Alexander normal is released, there will likely be zero need for BRD songs as well (MCH will still be useless if left alone). Savage mode might be different, but if BRD continues to do as pathetic of an output as it does now, you may be better just getting another NIN (or DRG, SMN, etc) to join a group.

The stupidly low DPS from MCH and BRD is a huge detriment to progressive raiding. One might argue that the bonus from Requiem will make up for it, but you have to consider how quickly the MP drains using it. It's not like upkeep is everlasting AND it depends on your raid setup. Paeon for NIN? That's fine, but you reduce the BRDs dmg even further by an additional 15%, meaning you're still a burden upon the grand scheme of things instead of just getting another DPS (or even tank/healer to prioritize DPS and jump in to help their normal roles if need).

BRD and MCH are basically that intern that just gets in the way while doing their job. Anyone else can do it better than them, but you just have them around because it's what resources you have lol.

[Sessurea]

lol

You sound like you done zero raiding, or maybe u did t10 with ilvl 130 and echo or else u just have zero clue about anything ? Do you even know what happens to a raids dps without a brd? Tanks and physical dps can't keep attacking. 2 nins wont cut it, they have to goad eachother, which leaves the tanks dry. Casters don't do more damage. There isn't one static out there without a bard ( again, not talking about max ilvl+echo here where support is not needed )Enjoy watching all the world first videos of alex savage which wll 100% have a brd or mcn.

[RiceisNice]

You sound like you done zero raiding, or maybe u did t10 with ilvl 130 and echo or else u just have zero clue about anything ? Do you even know what happens to a raids dps without a brd? Tanks and physical dps can't keep attacking. Casters don't do more damage. There isn't one static out there without a bard ( again, not talking about max ilvl+echo here where support is not needed )Enjoy watching all the world first videos of alex savage which wll 100% have a brd or mcn.

Except that's FCoB, in 2.0. Current state of the game now, BRD and especially MCH are under performing for really no good reason. Alexander is projected to be around the same difficulty level as FCOB with echo. And the progress of getting into savage requires gear from normal mode. The assumption of alexander needing a BRD/MCH to fill in that role is just as bad as assuming that they won't be needed honestly.

[Sessurea]

Except that's FCoB, in 2.0. Current state of the game now, BRD and especially MCH are under performing for really no good reason. Alexander is projected to be around the same difficulty level as FCOB with echo. And the progress of getting into savage requires gear from normal mode. The assumption of alexander needing a BRD/MCH to fill in that role is just as bad as assuming that they won't be needed honestly.

For brd to not be needed the fights would have to be about 4 minutes in duration.

For brd to be not needed in a long fight, it would have to be riddled with downtime, but even then ( think back to t9 ) downtime suits us brds because we have 6 offensive buffs always coming off cd, and mp regening for the blm.

Yh the dps isn't comparable to dumy parses from other dps, but that will crash down with mechanics while bards will remain as it is. AND we'll get a buff....

[Eidolon]

The primary difference right now as to why certain sayings for other jobs (e.g. loldrg) are perceived as not a big deal is because of potential. Right now, BRD and especially MCH, are pointless. DRG, SMN, etc were always decent for their role. Stereotypes often plagued them, but a good one always pushed through very well. It was the existing potential to do your role well and be competitive that made the stereotype nothing more than a joke based on humorous experience.

Such potential does not exist with MCH and BRD... no matter how good you are, you will never perform your role anywhere near as well as other jobs, including from tanks lol! Remember too, there is NO SUCH THING AS A SUPPORT ROLE. Even the idea of "support DPS" is nothing more than an idea of something that does not exist. So unless Yoshi-P was wrong in his statements about his own game, or he's beginning to go senile about his perspectives of the holy trinity, there needs to be a huge change to the perspective of BRD (and indirectly MCH). The larger amount of self/party utility abilities being given to other jobs diminishes the importance of songs as time goes on. If BRD and MCH, in this game, are performing worse (or equal to) tanks and significantly lower than other DPS, then that's not much different than a NIN, DRG, BLM, etc in the same position. I'm quite sure people would be in an uproar about that.

Currently, there is zero need for songs from BRD. When Alexander normal is released, there will likely be zero need for BRD songs as well (MCH will still be useless if left alone). Savage mode might be different, but if BRD continues to do as pathetic of an output as it does now, you may be better just getting another NIN (or DRG, SMN, etc) to join a group.

The stupidly low DPS from MCH and BRD is a huge detriment to progressive raiding. One might argue that the bonus from Requiem will make up for it, but you have to consider how quickly the MP drains using it. It's not like upkeep is everlasting AND it depends on your raid setup. Paeon for NIN? That's fine, but you reduce the BRDs dmg even further by an additional 15%, meaning you're still a burden upon the grand scheme of things instead of just getting another DPS (or even tank/healer to prioritize DPS and jump in to help their normal roles if need).

BRD and MCH are basically that intern that just gets in the way while doing their job. Anyone else can do it better than them, but you just have them around because it's what resources you have lol.

Gonna have to stop you on your first line. Even in 2.5, people would still avoid DRG's in a lot of content. Many T13 Learning/Clear parties that I offered to help would lock the two melee spots to specifically NIN + MNK. Reason? MNK mitigation from DRG kick (INT down) + Nin damage potential easily outweighed what a DRG could offer.

In 2.4, DRG's were dying left and right to magic damage, and were considered a hindrance. Many groups wouldn't take them because they were looked at as a huge liability. Were they still considered "Usable" back then, or did you just decide to remember them when SE buffed them and their resistances?

All through 2.0-2.3, evne when I out-dps'd monks in all content, DRG's were just not accepted for what they brought. They were mocked as being the ones to "Always die", and at first parties were stacking more BRD's than melee classes as they learned the job.

BRD/MCH is definitely a support-DPS that should have lower DPS, that's no issue to me. They offer the most utility of any other job in the game (Songs), and are -garunteed- a spot in PF, even under their current situation. Your raid comp is garunteed to have one or the other. Meanwhile a DRG will be competing with two other jobs for one of (possibly) 2 spots. We have some utility now, but I'm wondering how my damage will stack up to a good monk in 3.0. Looking forward to seeing it, but I do seem to decimate everyone so far.

Seriously, don't try to pretend that it's ok to poke fun at one job and then say another should be treated any differently just because of your perceptions. DRG's have dealt with far worst for far longer than BRD's and MCH's, at least these two ranged jobs are -garunteed- a spot in content.

[AskaRay]

Now now... there are tons of uses for BRD songs. Try raiding Alexander that first week without one and be nice and MP starved.

Yes absolutely something needs to be done about the low DPS rate.. I agree. But "no use at all" is just deluding yourself.

[Catwho]

The worst insult I ever got as a bard was "you aoe slut" - that was from a dragoon after I'd won the 5th or 6th piece of gear from Sohm Al. I was more amused than upset at that point, both at the stupidity of the insult (because I was outdamaging them due to the large number of AOE pulls in that dungeon) and the fact that I WAS kind of being a loot whore.

Right now, I'm one of the bards that is holding a grudge and is going to do everything I can to rip hate from the tank to prove a point. By the time we're on the 2nd or 3rd pull in a dungeon the tank realizes that I'm not joking around and actually keeps hate better.

quelling strikes lol what is that

As for the discussion regarding bard and machinist damage: A bard at their absolute best peak performance will still give the other merely good DPS a run for their money, but any of the other DPS at peak performance will stomp a bard's numbers flat. Since very few DPS run at maximum efficiency outside of the most hardcore raiding teams, but those are the very teams that are parsing the new abilities, bard seems weak in comparison. However, a great bard in normal content is still going to do amazing, especially dungeons with AOE pulls. Our FC leader, a career bard, just cleared Bismarck Ex twice tonight - the second time easily.

[ihatevnecks]

Question, OP: Why should the people who are the butt of your joke have to make the effort to find out whether you're being serious or not, when YOU have the choice to simply not make the stupid comment in the first place? They're the ones who have to hear this nonsense all day long, not you. You're just adding fuel to the fire, so you should be the one accepting responsibility, not them.