Hardcore is not a dirty word

[Xatsh]

I see it as this:

A hardcore game is a game where a casual player has an extremely hardtime succeeding, but the hardcore gamer has something they can play without running out of content. I feel Old XI (pre-abysea) accomplished this, I played for over 1000 RL days of playtime since launch and I never ran out of things to do, there was always something i could work for, something I could get that was better I could improve my character with. But the design of the game is what most players (casual base) see as not good, waste of time, too much work not enough reward, etc.

A casual game is where a hardcore player will just fly through the content and get stuck in the waiting game, but the casual gamer will be able to maintain a steady stream of progress throughout their playtime. I feel WoW and NA mainstream accomplishes this casual players can succeed and can easily progress through the content. They are rewarded for ever second of playtime, it is focused on little work but high reward. But the issue is the content... it is all short lived and quickly replaced. For example I started in Cataclysm on a new character.... I almost got to the new level cap in 5 days (seriously that is almost consol leveling curve), I have some friends who got almost all the new dungeon gear in 1-2 months they are now waiting on new content patches to be able to continue. {So basically WoW does not have enough content for all its players, 1 of XIV's issue atm.}

Someone who was just a casual player, played only for fun when they had free time, didn't want to really worry about grouping and building a strong bond with other players... honestly didn't do well in XI at all. They might of got to endgame probably took a few years but that was about it. They couldn't/didn't want to dedicate time to join a endgame shell, They didn't want to have to schedule the game into thier lived, They didn't want to have to wait 2-3 years for gear because they could only play 8-12hrs a week.

In a game like WoW that same person would get all the way to endgame, can do the easier raids to get decent gear, and so on. It is why WoW (the first casual mmo) was a massive success. There are simply more gamers who are casual and WoW turned the Hardcore genre into just another genre for all gamers. This is the same reason why so many hardcore oldschool gamers really dislike WoW.

[Bled]

There is a considerable difference between Newton's advancement of mathematics, and Appeals to popular authority.

you see Newton, Father of Calculus, has empirical scientific data to back his "advancement of mathematics" you can test his theories

Saying something is true because lots of people "believe it" can not be tested and is there for not evidence

SCIENCED!!!

Scienced?

do you even know what makes something a science because again you are embarrassing yourself lol.

Edit: i do agree with you the scope between the two is a big difference. However my point was that if a prominent figure states that say they are making a casual game (FFXIV) or a hardcore game (Disgaea 4) ultimately the burden of proof falls to you to prove that hardcore and casual does not exist seeing as both terms have been established by accredited people of the field.

So get working on your scientific method friend!

[Konachibi]

Does that make me a hardcore gamer in training because I left WoW for want of a bigger challenge and a more difficult game?

[Pandastirfry]

Scienced?

do you even know what makes something a science because again you are embarrassing yourself lol.

I asked you first.

Seriously how is Issac Newton's work, you know the mathmatic principles on which your computer works, the LAWS of thermodynamics, and other considerable contributions to science and math all of which are testable and repeatable the same as "a lot of children believe in Santa Claus, therefore he is real."

[Steggun]

I played FFXI from NA release and quit just after WotG...it wasn't hardcore, it was grindtastic, it was moderately successful and when WoW came out my server's pop went from 5,000~ avg at NA prime time to less than 2000~ avg at NA prime time and never rebounded by the time I quit

FFXI was the outlier...and I'm saying this as someone who enjoyed the game*


*well to be honest I liked goofing around with my LS mates the game itself was boring as sin.

For curiosities sake did you complete the CoP missions before ToAU came out?

[Bled]

I asked you first.

Seriously how is Issac Newton's work, you know the mathmatic principles on which your computer works, the LAWS of thermodynamics, and other considerable contributions to science and math all of which are testable and repeatable the same as "a lot of children believe in Santa Claus, therefore he is real."

Please look at last post edited in anticipation you were going to say that. ^

burden of proof falls to you.

[Pandastirfry]

Please look at last post edited in anticipation you were going to say that. ^

burden of proof falls to you.

So your plan is to go from the logical fallacy of "Appeal to the People" to "Appeal to Authority"?

[Bled]

So your plan is to go from the logical fallacy of "Appeal to the People" to "Appeal to Authority"?

Here you go this article i remembered reading when i was waiting for Disgaea 4 enjoy.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/118/1182004p1.html

and Appeal to Authority only holds true if i said "look my dad said hardcore exists" someone who is not a leading authority of that field, but no I'm giving you the developers and every other person working in the gaming field who are LEGITIMATE AUTHORITYS to the subject.

you on the other hand are not a developer so i would say you are not a leading authority, and you have given no objective proof backing your claim so everything you have stated is, frivolous.

[Pandastirfry]

Here you go this article i remembered reading when i was waiting for Disgaea 4 enjoy.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/118/1182004p1.html

and Appeal to Authority only holds true if i said "look my dad said hard core exists" some one who is not a leading authority of that field, but no I'm giving you the developers and every other person working in the gaming field who are LEGITIMATE AUTHORITYS to the subject.

Ah but the fallacy also hold that a biased authority is also a unreliable authority.

not only that but the article you just provided wasn't written by Dr. Gooblotz p.h.d Videogamolgist, Ameritas, it was written by some yutz on IGN.

[Bled]

Ah but the fallacy also hold that a biased authority is also a unreliable authority.

this should be good... what do you consider biased then? especially pertaining to this

talked about ambiguous terms being thrown around, we are all biased to degree right down to Newton.

lol you really are grasping at straws, when someone gets to the point where their only defense is link me scholarly journals otherwise i don't believe it to be true, you know you have a sore loser. This is an internet forum get over your self and own up to when you make false accusations and take them way to far, if you still don't agree with it you should bow out now; I don't see you posting any sources.

wheres your Dr. Gooblotz p.h.d Videogamolgist stating that hardcore games don't exist.

Hell id take some yutz from IGN and think on it if you posted that.