Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

[FinalWolf]

Boy all these poor DRKs crying makes me sad . Just focus on the class and learn to tank with it. DRK is great. Doesn't get out damaged by PLD by the way. I don't know why people keep saying that, Royal Authority's combo is lower average potency than anything a DRK can do, and Goring Blade is also gated by a combo while Scourge is just a stand alone 500 potency. I'm typically 150 to 200 DPS higher than a PLD.

Actually was doing a Bis Ex clear for a member today and the PLD tank got knocked off right at the beginning of the third phase and I tanked all three adds for the rest of the fight till we cleared. But yea, third rate tank. Please just actually TRY and learn the class instead of being terrible with it and calling it bad.

Nope we gotta stick with PLD/WAR only for the next 9 years good times

[Skyhunter]

I haven't had any trouble with DRK at all. As a matter of fact, I'm not totally convinced that I won't let it replace my PLD as my primary tanking class. In playing though, I've yet to have anybody complain to be about being a DRK, nor cause any wipes because of a lack of abilities to use.

As a healer, my least favorite tank to have is still warrior, but that's just personal nit-picking and I am still able to play through content just fine so long as said warrior isn't a complete idiot. Ultimately that's been what it's come down to for me, though... whether or not the person tanking is a good player, not which class they are using. If anything, I think the reason DRK MIGHT seem bad to some people is because all the green tanks that instantly picked it up at release, thus not having time to ease into the tanking job like they would had they started with PLD or WAR.

[Allyrion]

It's hard figuring out the character niche of the Dark Knight as well for group play. The Warrior is a powerful beast who runs wild on his enemies; a trash-talking, mouth smashing brute carved out of rock who dishes out more pain than he receives. The Paladin is a gallant protector, a chivalrous knight, the quintessential 'heroic figure' who never leaves a comrade behind, and fears nothing and no one. The traditional theme for dark Knights is 'selfishness and pain' but where does that fit in for his tanking theme? Like, how do you translate something like that into fun gameplay that involves protecting others? The most memorable DK I can recall was Gaffgarion from FF:Tactics, and he was pretty much a jaded dick.

Could be wrong, but I got the impression that DRK has a decent archetype.
Yoshida even mentioned Berserk's Guts as an example. It's an anti-hero that uses dark powers (the powers of his enemies) to defend the weak.
There's still a theme of sacrifice, but its their sacrifice since you drain their power for health and mp. That's the impression I'm getting anyway.
Also, feels like Batman, lol.

For story purposes, you shouldn't look further than Cecil (for in-house references) in FFIV.
Cecil was a defender and righteous even as a Dark Knight, and he is the quintessential DRK being the breakout character for the Job (like Kain is to DRG).
And he was anything but selfish.
He sacrificed himself to darkness to serve a greater cause of defending the weak, like all the anti-heroes of that type (Guts, Batman, etc.)

[Jahaudant]

As a DRK, even after they fixed double DA, I can still pull 800 DPS (1000-0 TP) on dummy, and in BisEX my fight average is always around 600 DPS. For the carapace phases we have pretty solid burst with our oGCDs and MP dumping with chain DA's. I am usually above at least 1 real DPS class which is nice, but pretty sad if you think about it.

[Vire]

As a DRK, even after they fixed double DA, I can still pull 800 DPS (1000-0 TP) on dummy, and in BisEX my fight average is always around 600 DPS. For the carapace phases we have pretty solid burst with our oGCDs and MP dumping with chain DA's. I am usually above at least 1 real DPS class which is nice, but pretty sad if you think about it.

Yeah pulling 800 DPS on a dummy 1000-0 TP is great except that no fight in the end game is going to last 2 minutes so the whole point is that even if you have higher dps then a war for 2 mins that war is going to kill you over 5 mins which is what most fights in this game is balanced having small tp regen breaks with.

Its not that DRK is broken like war was in 2.0. Its just that they are objectively worst in every aspect to one or the other tank. Sure you can clear everything with one but your basically asking for charity from your group because if they took some one else they would be more effective.

[Tila]

A lot of people in these threads are confusing

"Is useable"

with

"Is viable"

Just because the DRK is capable of doing the content does not mean they are in an ok place. WAR and PLD are just plain better. Some of the mental gymnastics that people use to prove other tanks arent as good is just hilarious at that. Like saying that defiance isnt real mitigation because it just ups the HP: ignoring the fact that one big point of defiance is that it also improves healing effects. Or how I have many times seen people comparing DRK skills to other tank skills minus the new HW ones.

[RissienNorolithe]

I just did Bis Ex last night with my fc using DRK in all ilvl180 VIT gear and all stats in STR and i didnt find it to be that bad really. As far as I know from my group i wasnt taking anymore damage than the WAR really and we didnt have any issue with dps checks. Before that though I was also getting refused from groups because i was DRK. People need to just ease up a bit and stop being min-maxers just let us play the game.

[PWilson]

A lot of people in these threads are confusing

"Is useable"

with

"Is viable"

Just because the DRK is capable of doing the content does not mean they are in an ok place. WAR and PLD are just plain better. Some of the mental gymnastics that people use to prove other tanks arent as good is just hilarious at that. Like saying that defiance isnt real mitigation because it just ups the HP: ignoring the fact that one big point of defiance is that it also improves healing effects. Or how I have many times seen people comparing DRK skills to other tank skills minus the new HW ones.

It's a legitimate confusion.
If the DRK is capable of performing the content, then who really cares if other tanks can do it better, other than folks who get into wankery about minmaxing?

[SirTaint]

I just did Bis Ex last night with my fc using DRK in all ilvl180 VIT gear and all stats in STR and i didnt find it to be that bad really. As far as I know from my group i wasnt taking anymore damage than the WAR really and we didnt have any issue with dps checks. Before that though I was also getting refused from groups because i was DRK. People need to just ease up a bit and stop being min-maxers just let us play the game.

Bis EX is an i140 lvl fight, of course it felt fine at i180. All 3 tanks can go full STR and tank that fight, its zzz content. Same with Ravana EX tanks need to be i145ish for that fight.

DRK needs some tweaks and I'm sure they will get some soon. Hopefully before Alex Savage.

The biggest problem with this thread is that there is no content out there to test tanks right now. Once we are ungeared for a fight the true colors will be more obvious to the masses.

[Ipkonfig]

@RissienNorolithe - You're not finding it bad, because it isn't. If you look at a majority of these posts these people don't even play the class at end game, they have no real idea of what a DRK tank is like and just base everything off conjecture. Both Bis Ex and Rav Ex are easily handled by DRK without hindering a party whatsoever.