Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

[Agrieus]

Darkside isn't really a cooldown. You should always have it turned on unless you're bad.

DRK does have quite a few oGCD attacks, but that does not mean that they'll do more damage than WAR. Considering their major offensive buffs, DRK will generally be dealing 92% damage (Darkside at all times), WAR 90% (Maim at all times), and PLD 88% (Keen flurry a third of the time) while in their tanking stances. Then you factor in things like Unchained, Eye of the Storm and Berserk, and WAR's damage starts to soar. Furthermore, WAR has the ability to stance dance freely. Even if DRK can manage to outDPS WAR in Defiance, that doesn't really matter, since good WARs should be freely switching throughout the fight, outputting massive damage with Deliverance, and then switching to Defiance to use Inner Beast and eat any big hits.


Because of the massive MP cost and GCD attached to Grit, DRK doesn't really have this luxury. WAR has changed quite a bit with 3.0, and you're not giving it the credit it deserves.

It's actually the other way around. You yourself have apparently leveled a Drk but you clearly haven't mastered it yet since you're saying you should never have Dark Side off and you're complaining about the MP cost to turn on Grit. There are times, when you're trying to fill your mp bar back up to full super quick, when you SHOULD turn off Dark Side. By turning off Dark Side + Grit and Using blood weapon (and shadow wall should you need to soak damage) you'll recover your MP back up to full within half the time it takes for blood weapon to be fully used up. Once it's back up to full, you can toggle DS back on, use a high MP draining DA combo, turn DA back off, finish topping off your MP (which will happen just before blood weapon expires) then hop back into Grit and turn back on DS. Is this a complicated move? Sure. Is it complicated for me? No. Why? Because I don't use a controller, I assign every ability I have to my keyboard, and I've practiced and gotten used to how to easily refill my MP back up to fill with ease while not having to sacrifice any DPS. And ever since the expansion's launch, the only time a Warrior has surpassed me in DPS while we were both tanking is when they spike their dps with their offensive buffs/fell cleave/etc but once the spike ends their dps just goes back down and I surpass them again within seconds. Just practice more with Drk and stop being so biased because every time you compare the two you list off everything that a War can do in depth but hardly touch on anything (if at all) that the Drk can do. It's YOU that's not giving Drk the credit deserves because you're spoiled with an easier rotation with Warrior. It's the same song and dance that it was when 2.0 came out. People complained that Warrior wasn't nearly as good as the Pld or couldn't do as much damage as a Pld because people weren't used to it yet.

[Ipkonfig]

@ Faytte - Nah they are just squishier to sustained damage plain and simple, especially in Alex where there is a plethora of magic damage. And since Savage will most likely just be the same relative mechanics with boosted damage that discrepancy will grow even more.

[Timat]

The only time it effects game play is if you let yourself get extremely low and the glitch causes you to drop to zero making Dark Side fall off. Why on earth would you let your MP get so low? At that level of MP you lose almost all utility, you can't grab ranged threat, you can't generate AoE threat, and you can't Dark Arts till you get yourself back to at least 33% MP.

snip

Because everything goes perfect every time right?

I mean why would healers let your HP go to 0? You just lose the fight then why would they do that?

Because things happen.

Not only that but it also effects casts. Say you just got a MP tick and you are going to cast idk...abyssal drain or something or even Dark Arts just in time to get that SE heal in a clutch moment! O wait that bug poped up and guess what your cast didnt go off.

[Ipkonfig]

A tank's HP dropping to zero and a DRK's MP dropping to zero are not the same thing. HP has multiple factors, how much damage the tank is taking, is the tank dodging mechanics that are avoidable, is the healer healing in cleric stance, is there a down healer, are the DPS standing in stuff they shouldn't, etc, etc, etc.

DRK MP management is completely up to the DRK, and that's it.

And sure nothing ever goes perfect, but isn't that how tanking typically is? We tanks shape the fight and control the flow, regardless of how that flow moves we need to control it, part of this is managing your MP, just in case you have those emergency situations where you need something done right away.

[Timat]

A tank's HP dropping to zero and a DRK's MP dropping to zero are not the same thing. HP has multiple factors, how much damage the tank is taking, is the tank dodging mechanics that are avoidable, is the healer healing in cleric stance, is there a down healer, are the DPS standing in stuff they shouldn't, etc, etc, etc.

DRK MP management is completely up to the DRK, and that's it.

And sure nothing ever goes perfect, but isn't that how tanking typically is? We tanks shape the fight and control the flow, regardless of how that flow moves we need to control it, part of this is managing your MP, just in case you have those emergency situations where you need something done right away.

Right....and as we have been saying that MP management is made even harder because of this bug, which you seem to think is inconsequential when it isnt.

This isnt some minor thing as you are passing it off to be.

[Edmond_Guilford]

Unless you're fighting nothing but trash (and phase 3 of Bismark Ex is basically a glorified trash pull anyway), there's no way you're going to be unable to spend your MP faster than Blood Price regenerates it. Especially against bosses with slow attack speeds (I'm looking at you, A1).

People actually tank A1 in Grit?

[JayCommon]

(BRD may have died without my knowing, I can't understand why he parsed so low - ACT not registering WM damage after patch maybe?).

I know this is completely off topic, but it sounds like this never-ending debate that everyone has here with Kaedan could use a small break

I know our Bard hopped in the machine thing to move Bombs and apply the de-buffs to the adds. I'm not sure how much DPS you can do when your in that, but it possibly contributed to a low parse? I used to main BRD, and although I haven't gotten it to 60 yet (58 atm), I did play around the changes. I'm on console so I can't parse but visually I could tell an increase in my attacks in WM over the old version and applying it was obviously easier. I can't think of a reason a damage increase to a skill could break ACT, but then again I don't use it so I wouldn't know if what I say holds merit in regards to that.

Sorry for interrupting with senseless non-tank drivel. Y'all can now get back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

[Xenosan]

Oh that was definitely why. Forgot about the go-cart

[Kiteless]

It's actually the other way around. You yourself have apparently leveled a Drk but you clearly haven't mastered it yet since you're saying you should never have Dark Side off and you're complaining about the MP cost to turn on Grit. There are times, when you're trying to fill your mp bar back up to full super quick, when you SHOULD turn off Dark Side. By turning off Dark Side + Grit and Using blood weapon (and shadow wall should you need to soak damage) you'll recover your MP back up to full within half the time it takes for blood weapon to be fully used up. Once it's back up to full, you can toggle DS back on, use a high MP draining DA combo, turn DA back off, finish topping off your MP (which will happen just before blood weapon expires) then hop back into Grit and turn back on DS.

Um... no. Never, under any circumstance, should you actually be turning Darkside off while actively in combat (although, absolutely feel free to turn it off during phase changes and invulnerable periods, obviously). That's a lot of work to do for a lot of reduced efficiency (and god, that blood weapon is going to wreck your TP and you're not even getting damage for it!). Darkside is so powerful and so important that you absolutely will not be making those gains back if you turn it off. Learn to manage your MP without turning it off.

Is this a complicated move? Sure. Is it complicated for me? No. Why? Because I don't use a controller, I assign every ability I have to my keyboard, and I've practiced and gotten used to how to easily refill my MP back up to fill with ease while not having to sacrifice any DPS.

Except you are sacrificing your DPS. And congratulations for setting up your basic layout like every single other PC player does... I guess? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that. Does anyone actually have trouble hitting their keys?

And ever since the expansion's launch, the only time a Warrior has surpassed me in DPS while we were both tanking is when they spike their dps with their offensive buffs/fell cleave/etc but once the spike ends their dps just goes back down and I surpass them again within seconds.

So you don't hang out with many good WARs. That's not unreasonable. And I out DPS DPS players all the time, even in tank stance, and by significantly large margins. That means nothing other than the fact that we run into a lot of bad players.

Just practice more with Drk and stop being so biased because every time you compare the two you list off everything that a War can do in depth but hardly touch on anything (if at all) that the Drk can do. It's YOU that's not giving Drk the credit deserves because you're spoiled with an easier rotation with Warrior.

...except for the fact that the main reason that I play and enjoy DRK as a class is because its rotation is harder than WAR's. If the issue were with the complexity of DRK's rotation, I would have been saying that. But it's not, the issue is with the results.

It's the same song and dance that it was when 2.0 came out. People complained that Warrior wasn't nearly as good as the Pld or couldn't do as much damage as a Pld because people weren't used to it yet.

...except WAR wasn't as good as PLD. By an extremely significant margin. And they basically remade WAR because the disparity between the classes was so huge.


Also, for future reference, paragraph spacing and post formatting are important concepts. Please learn them.

People actually tank A1 in Grit?

Sorry, not MLG enough to know the fight on day 1.

[Ditto]

It's actually the other way around. You yourself have apparently leveled a Drk but you clearly haven't mastered it yet since you're saying you should never have Dark Side off and you're complaining about the MP cost to turn on Grit. There are times, when you're trying to fill your mp bar back up to full super quick, when you SHOULD turn off Dark Side. By turning off Dark Side + Grit and Using blood weapon (and shadow wall should you need to soak damage) you'll recover your MP back up to full within half the time it takes for blood weapon to be fully used up. Once it's back up to full, you can toggle DS back on, use a high MP draining DA combo, turn DA back off, finish topping off your MP (which will happen just before blood weapon expires) then hop back into Grit and turn back on DS.

I stopped reading after this part.

I've never heard anything funner in my life. If you don't have Darkside going 24/7, ESPECIALLY when outside of Grit, what you're doing is wasting so much MP by regenerating your MP over the cap, and then wasting your buff times by toggling Darkside between gcd's instead of an actual oGCD skill. If you have Grit off, Blood Weapon will carry your MP. While it's down, you simply lay off the Dark Arts spam a little whule using syphon to keep your MP going. Once it's back up, it's back to DA'ing every single souleater and C&S you can.

You talk about having 'mastering' Drk, yet what you're doing is the silliest thing I have seen any Drk do yet, and I've seen Drk's do some pretty silly things. The goal for a Drk's MP is to keep it floating. You NEVER want to max out, and you NEVER want to hit critical low point without a way to spike it back up. In other words, you never want to let Darkside fall off due to complete depletion of MP, and you never want to over regen your MP, or let it sit at cap. Syphon alone can prevent this, and outside of Grit, Blood Weapon will make sure that never happens. As for sitting at cap, Darkside alone should prevent that, but if you have anything over 5.5k MP, you best Dark Arts something, or throw out a Passenger, which I do literally on cooldown when I have Blood Weapon going, on top of Drk Artsing every Souleater.

Also, no matter what you seem to think, dropping Darkside for ANY reason at all while you're capable of hitting something, is a DPS loss. So yes, you're sacrificing a LOT of your DPS actually, and are likely wasting a lot of your MP as well every single time you enable Darkside. In every fight right now, dropping Darkside for anything is a waste of MP, because nothing stays out of your attack range for long enough for the Darkside ticks to outweigh the cost of throwing it back up, excluding maybe Bloody Fuller in Ravana. You have plenty of time to prepare for that however.

P.S. Blood Weapon is your main damage buff outside of Grit. Using that without Darkside on is the most foolish thing you can do.

P.S.S. I decided to read the rest, and those Warriors you went up against were likely very terrible, probably didn't utilize Berserk as much as they should have, and probably didn't know how to stance dance. Which in that case, they were playing entirely defensively, though with very questionable performance.

People actually tank A1 in Grit?

They do, it surprises even me. I take whichever boss I'm on, power slash, Dark Arts power slash, maybe power slash a 3rd time if I think I need it to push my enmity more, then drop Grit and never turn it back on again. Rotate my CD's to make the healers job a bit easier, and just go completely ham on Blood Weapon and all out assault. Often there are times where my bosses HP is much lower than the other, so I tell every DPS to go on the other boss, and I wind up either finishing my boss off on my own, or getting it low enough to where both bosses die at almost the same time. (And this starts from as high as 15% HP left on my boss)

But well I mean even as a Drk, I got all 4 floors cleared only a few hours after the patch hit.