Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

[Kiteless]

Again the point you’re missing is that a PLD can pop RAMPART and CONV and a DRK can pop Shadow Skin and CONV. This means the only thing in WAR’s benefit (in your comparison) is the thrill of battle being compared to rampart and shadowskin. In fact you’re actually arguing against yourself here because a PLD gets enhanced 30% which makes it even more effective on a PLD.

And then WAR can also pop Inner Beast and Vengeance and Raw Intuition on top of that too. That doesn't change the fact that Thrill+Conv has added eHP to WAR. Yes, PLD's improved Convalescence will make it easier to recover health, and thus, easier to recover from tankbusters, but only WAR can use it (combined with Thrill of Battle, as mentioned above), to actually survive tankbusters better.

edit: Additionally increasing your HP by an factor does not increase mitigation or MP efficiency on heals (well outside of old lustrate), it simply just increases your HP pool. If you don't need that HP the only thing that is of benefit is the self heal that's the only thing you can actually compare.

And once again, you are missing the point. Thrill of Battle increases your maximum HP while also healing you for that amount, while Convalescence makes healing easier. This is a direct increase to effective HP by 17%, in the same way that Rampart is a direct increase to effective HP by 20%.

If a WAR and a PLD have 1000 base HP, and they are both in their tanking stance, this is what we have:

WAR effective HP:
1000*(1.2 eHP gain from Defiance)=1200 effective hit points


PLD effective HP:
1000*(1.2 eHP gain from Shield Oath)=1200 effective hit points

Now, the Paladin will still only have 1000HP listed, but including all the mitigation and buffs it has active at this point in time, it is as if it had 1200 hit points. Similarly, WAR's defiance grants a 25% increase to HP, and a 20% increase to healing. This ends up being around equal to the 20% mitigation that PLD's Shield Oath has, meaning that WAR also has 1200 effective hit points in this scenario, even though he'll be listed as having 1250 HP. WAR having slightly higher HP in this scenario does impact things a bit, but we'll leave it as it is for the sake of simplification.

So, when PLD uses any other mitigation skill, it is, in effect, increasing its effective hit points so that it may take whatever blow comes its way. For example, if that PLD uses rampart, that's a 20% increase in mitigation, which, for the time being, means a 20% increase in effective HP.

PLD effective HP with Shield Oath and Rampart:
1000*1.2*1.2=1440 effective HP

Similarly, if WAR uses inner beast in addition with defiance, it nets a similar effect.

WAR effective HP with Defiance and Inner Beast:
1000*1.2*1.2=1440 effective HP

Notice how these numbers are the same, even though the method of mitigation is different? This is because effective HP is a way of breaking down various methods of mitigation to see their true, base effectiveness. This is very, very basic math right here.

Now, if a PLD uses Convalescence in addition to the above, he gains a 30% bonus to his healing, but it does not increase his effective HP, since it does nothing of value to help him to soak the next blows.

PLD effective HP with Shield Oath, Rampart, and Convalescence
1000*1.2*1.2=1440 effective HP

But if WAR uses Convalescence with Thrill of Battle, that provides a combined bonus that does increase his effective HP. Combining the factors of increased healing, along with increased match HP (and the fact that your HP is healed proportionately), this is mathhammere'd out to be around 17% overall increase.

So WAR effective HP with Defiance, Inner Beast, Thrill of Battle, and Convalescence
1000*1.2*1.2*1.17=1685 effective HP

This is a unique skill interaction for WAR, since none of the other tanks have abilities that increase their max health to coincide with the improved healing ability of Convalescence. And because of this, despite PLD having a trait that makes him easier to heal with it, WAR is the only tank that can use Convalescence as part of an actual mitigation tool.

Once again, this is very basic math.