Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

[SirTaint]

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ZERO's main group is one of the best groups on Adamantoise and Serenity is playing DRK. They have had no trouble so far.

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A good group (assumed by your comment) playing easy content well with DRK doesn't prove anything. Now if they choose to do progression during Alex Savage in two weeks with a DRK I'd be impressed.

DRK needs some tweaking because progression groups will be looking for the most effective ways to clear content. Losing PLDs HG and WARs path/eye will be extremely tough.

[Delorean]

A good group (assumed by your comment) playing easy content well with DRK doesn't prove anything. Now if they choose to do progression during Alex Savage in two weeks with a DRK I'd be impressed.

how many people here even have their sights set on savage though?

that's my point - all this obsession with min maxing and most people play in a group where it doesn't matter and are holding themselves to a standard for a facet of content they will probably not even complete.

if you are focusing on that content then you know that you can't expect a developer to fix your favorite class for you to play and you will have to use what you've got.

but for this low end stuff? every class is viable

[Kiteless]

how many people here even have their sights set on savage though?

that's my point - all this obsession with min maxing and most people play in a group where it doesn't matter and are holding themselves to a standard for a facet of content they will probably not even complete.

if you are focusing on that content then you know that you can't expect a developer to fix your favorite class for you to play and you will have to use what you've got.

but for this low end stuff? every class is viable

In my experience, it's because for a lot of content, especially early on (although it never REALLY changes too much), you're going to end up with a lot of 'dud' players. And this doesn't even really have to be for hard content, Bismark Ex is really just an easy DPS check, and yet a lot of people have a lot of difficulty with it. So players will try to eliminate as many elements from their party composition that could end up costing them a run and their next sliver of sanity.
In the case of DRK, we have a class that is the least capable of the tanks in addition to having the highest skill requirements of the role. That's a lot of room for some pretty catastrophic error that a lot of other players just might feel isn't worth the risk, whether that risk be proven or simply inferred.

[SirTaint]

how many people here even have their sights set on savage though?

that's my point - all this obsession with min maxing and most people play in a group where it doesn't matter and are holding themselves to a standard for a facet of content they will probably not even complete.

if you are focusing on that content then you know that you can't expect a developer to fix your favorite class for you to play and you will have to use what you've got.

but for this low end stuff? every class is viable

You brought up "one of the best groups" since when do the best groups not attempt the only real endgame raid? Alexander Savage (HM or whatever its final name is) is the new coil. Alexander normal is CT level. Bis EX and Ravana EX are barely mid level content especially compared to the previous primals.

My point was every class via for the current game but when endgame begins in two weeks all the flaws of every class will be exposed. I do not predict too many DRKs being used during Progression but I'm sure there will be a few.

[Delorean]

My point was every class via for the current game but when endgame begins in two weeks all the flaws of every class will be exposed. I do not predict too many DRKs being used during Progression but I'm sure there will be a few.

and i get that

but for most players any change will not be making a lot of difference. you can't depend on developers at that level, you have to make due with what you have. the player in question has also leveled paladin, I suspect just in case they decide that they need it. or maybe they prefer it, i do not know - but they have played it for now and done fine with it so this "A DRK is going to make my Ravana harder" crap is just lol

and it'll be crap when alexander opens up too

Or....they balance encounters with tank dps in mind because....spoiler alert: tanks do damage too

well i've said it before and i'll say it again - if you are relying on a tank for damage on a DPS check there is a 99.9% chance that there is something else wrong with your group like not executing mechanics correctly, having bad DPS damage output or you are pushing content early.

a lot of people fancy themselves amazing players but most people really can't even imagine what it is like to be going for server ranks when it is really competitive. it's literally staring at a dragon until it kills you longer than you have probably ever worked. pre-prepared meals ready to eat cold during short breaks. grueling hours and hours of wiping to the same shit, just to do it again tomorrow or next week or to fuck with a boss that is just as hard as that one next.

if a good tank only does as much DPS as a bad DPS can do it is not going to hurt you much to be missing 15% of that on content that was designed for many players to access. your job as a tank is to survive and make your damage spikes predictable or easier to deal with.

when you are on that level, then you can worry about your tank's DPS

it's like yeah u can look back and be like well if we had a WAR instead of a DRK... but there's a pretty good chance you can also be like Well if WHM didnt get stunned and die to mechanic and MNK would have been attacking the right target or if BRD would figure out a way to stop kiting like dogshit...

[Tila]

how many people here even have their sights set on savage though?

that's my point - all this obsession with min maxing and most people play in a group where it doesn't matter and are holding themselves to a standard for a facet of content they will probably not even complete.

if you are focusing on that content then you know that you can't expect a developer to fix your favorite class for you to play and you will have to use what you've got.

but for this low end stuff? every class is viable

Very true, but thats no excuse for DRK wanting to be on par with the other tanks, which it is not.

[RissienNorolithe]

I just did Bis Ex last night with my fc using DRK in all ilvl180 VIT gear and all stats in STR and i didnt find it to be that bad really. As far as I know from my group i wasnt taking anymore damage than the WAR really and we didnt have any issue with dps checks. Before that though I was also getting refused from groups because i was DRK. People need to just ease up a bit and stop being min-maxers just let us play the game.

[SirTaint]

I just did Bis Ex last night with my fc using DRK in all ilvl180 VIT gear and all stats in STR and i didnt find it to be that bad really. As far as I know from my group i wasnt taking anymore damage than the WAR really and we didnt have any issue with dps checks. Before that though I was also getting refused from groups because i was DRK. People need to just ease up a bit and stop being min-maxers just let us play the game.

Bis EX is an i140 lvl fight, of course it felt fine at i180. All 3 tanks can go full STR and tank that fight, its zzz content. Same with Ravana EX tanks need to be i145ish for that fight.

DRK needs some tweaks and I'm sure they will get some soon. Hopefully before Alex Savage.

The biggest problem with this thread is that there is no content out there to test tanks right now. Once we are ungeared for a fight the true colors will be more obvious to the masses.

[Tila]

Bis EX is an i140 lvl fight, of course it felt fine at i180. All 3 tanks can go full STR and tank that fight, its zzz content. Same with Ravana EX tanks need to be i145ish for that fight.

DRK needs some tweaks and I'm sure they will get some soon. Hopefully before Alex Savage.

The biggest problem with this thread is that there is no content out there to test tanks right now. Once we are ungeared for a fight the true colors will be more obvious to the masses.

Ironically, did BiS ex last night. Other tank was a full 170 half 180 geared drk. Myself was sitting 167 ilvl. The DRK caused a few wipes by dying to simple stuff, kept running out of mana, didn't always keep darkside up, he had problems killing the little add on P3 by himself, messed up some trash grabs etc...

Its understandable where all the "loldrk" is coming from, since it seems much more likely that a bad tank will be a DRK than one of the other classes.

And yes, at the end the two healers said they wouldn't want to group with a DRK again.

[Delorean]

And yes, at the end the two healers said they wouldn't want to group with a DRK again.

who cares lol

there are garbage players of every class

they wont group with a DRK again... until, of course, they need a tank for their group and the DRK player in question has a desirable item level as well as an abundance of raid experience.

The amount of deja vu in here is a little disorienting. Same old bullshit, different release.