Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

[Krissey]

Foresight is ok, but it's not a tank buster CD. Bloodbath usually leads to overhealing, or just healing too little - it's semi-useful under offensive buffs to alleviate fluff damage a bit but that's about as far as it goes.

I thought this whole argument was "overall mitigation", and Foresight reduces damage right? So that's mitigation. I just feel like, if we're going to argue for 7 pages over precisely every little detail of mitigation, any amount of damage reduced or damage recovered, even 1, might be important to be completely fair?

Maybe I am missing the point

[SpookyGhost]

I thought this whole argument was "overall mitigation", and Foresight reduces damage right? So that's mitigation. I just feel like, if we're going to argue for 7 pages over precisely every little detail of mitigation, any amount of damage reduced or damage recovered, even 1, might be important to be completely fair?

Maybe I am missing the point

Well, everyone can kinda use Foresight, the only thing the trait does is shorten the recast time (120s -> 90s). Foresight is also physical defense only, so would be useless against magic attacks. But yeah, over the course of a physical-based fight, a WAR would probably end up mitigating a bit more damage with some extra Foresights.

[Krissey]

Well, everyone can kinda use Foresight, the only thing the trait does is shorten the recast time (120s -> 90s). Foresight is also physical defense only, so would be useless against magic attacks. But yeah, over the course of a physical-based fight, a WAR would probably end up mitigating a bit more damage with some extra Foresights.

I just feel bad for Foresight. Nobody ever talks about him but he's my buddy and I use him on cooldown, every time, whether tanking trash or tanking bosses. I like to combine him with Bloodbath, then do a few overpowered strikes to get that healing going.

However that's just a habit I've fallen in to, also I only do that combo on trash packs. Otherwise I do the Bloodbath+Foresight thing on main boss with Unchained and break out all the cooldowns.

Edit: Does Convalescence effect help or combine well with Bloodbath?

I usually do Bloodbath+Foresight together, and use Thrill of Battle+Convalescence+Second Wind together, and use Vengeance on its own. Inner Beast every 5 stacks, and use Infuriate+Inner Beast on cooldown.

Am I doing it wrong?

[PWilson]

Okay, nobody ever mentions Bloodbath and Foresight, which I use regularly on cooldown. Are they really that awful that nobody mentions them even once?

Sshhhhh.
When someone talks about "damage mitigation" and "eHP" to emphasize the work that the healer has to do, while breathlessly comparing the classes and ignoring Bloodbath, I giggle a little inside.
/ and I'm a plaid, not even a wore

Really, a spirited discussion like this is the result of some really good balancing work on SE's part.

[Ditto]

No one is denying Foresight's use, and Bloodbath should be used on cooldown just because why not.

Thing is, every tank has these. Just as they can all have Convalescence, but Conv just beats both Bloodbath and Foresight in terms of usefulness.

Foresight is like an extra small layer of protection you throw over your actual cd's. It alone isn't going to save you from anything.

Well, everyone can kinda use Foresight, the only thing the trait does is shorten the recast time (120s -> 90s). Foresight is also physical defense only, so would be useless against magic attacks. But yeah, over the course of a physical-based fight, a WAR would probably end up mitigating a bit more damage with some extra Foresights.

And ya pretty much that^

[SpookyGhost]

Convalescence doesn't effect Bloodbath's healing (Conv only affects healing magic), you usually want to save Convalescence to pair with Thrill.

Thrill + Conv, Vengeance, and Raw Intuition are your big CDs that you want to save for tank busters (Raw Intuition is useless against magical tank busters, though). Bloodbath and Foresight are used on CD, Bloodbath often best paired with offensive CDs (Unchained, Berserk, IR) while Foresight is just useful for mitigating fluff damage as often as it's available for. Second Wind and Equilibrium are best when under the effect of Berserk, but basically just used in a pinch (no heals incoming, at critical health, tank buster incoming, etc) or after a tank buster. Always use IB @ 5 stacks unless Infuriate isn't available and a tank buster is coming up in a few GCDs.

If Unchained is up and no tank buster is coming in the next ~20s, it's better to use that over IB.

That's the basics of WAR mitigation/management-wise. Stuff changes from fight to fight and WAR has a lot of leg room for mitigation, so as long as you're not dying and your healers aren't complaining then you're doing it right.

[Adventica6]

Guessing it's because drks awful tp managment combined with the darkside mp bug with regens that still isn't fixed, these things are holding drk back considerably compared to a warrior, I don't have exp with pld but I think they are doing ok dmg not sure.

The problem is forsure the darkside mp bug, with all the buffs and regens flying around you will constantly be using the low dmg syphon combo to just stay afloat, where as a warrior can just keep slamming away with no mp to worry about and good tp also.

To the people who said " those guys were just being jerks" all 5 different groups? yeh sure... it's called a stigma, and isn't going away until darkside bug is dealt with.

[Ipkonfig]

@Adventica6

First, it's been said to death, the Darkside MP bug is not an actual bug it's just a graphical glitch, you gain the MP back in the next ticks, but yes if you don't manage your MP and let yourself get low enough where the glitch drains you to zero before the next tick, Darkside falls off, but that's just bad DRKing. Also Syphon Strike is DRK's highest potency combo, Syphon Strike -> Delirium Blade is the second highest average potency combo for tanks.

Playing both DRK/WAR in all current content at i181 I can say that they both have there ups and downs, and I can see reasons to bring either to a fight, and so far you don't need a PLD MT for anything.

It also isn't that the were being "jerks" they are just ignorant and assume because a bunch of players, who don't even have the class at cap say it's bad, that it is, in fact, bad. The reality is that it's a solid tank, great for Alex because of the preponderance of magical attacks, and it also does great damage. Tied with WAR in OT DPS (zero fights atm have enough up time to drain your TP) and the best MT DPS.

[Timat]

@Adventica6

First, it's been said to death, the Darkside MP bug is not an actual bug it's just a graphical glitch,

No its not, a graphical glitch implies it does not actually affect gameplay which it does. You may think its a minior thing but even if you do saying its a graphical glitch is incorrect

Though again its not as harmless as you think it is. You can try to pass it off as "If you cant deal with it you are just bad" but that doesnt make it so.

[Dante_V]

Seems like the dps are relying on the tanks to meet the check which is a no go IMO. Ive beaten the dps check with any tank combination and sometimes with the tanks parsing below what they should be. With good dps and the tanks understanding their necessity and survivability it's fairly simple. Also I see a lot of talk about low Drk dps and honestly the ones who I've met and seem to understand the class have been bringing in high numbers as MT (more so than as OT) but I think an MT DRK is extremely viable if the person knows the job. So long as the tanks are at least bringing an average amount of dps the party should be successful. I think there is a lot of sub par dps at this point relying on tanks and even healers to meet the check and using this as a basis to discriminate against drk (or other classes like brd or mch) to make up for their lack of ability on their own jobs. Drk doesn't deserve all the hate it gets even if their are mountains of people who don't fully understand the job yet.

TL;DR
unless the tank is bringing extremely subpar dps it really shouldn't matter. If the dps are decently geared and know their stuff the tank composition wont matter to any extreme degree to warrant discrimination of one job vs the next. In savage content this might be different but the ex primals should be more than accessible with any tank combo including 2 drks.