Constellations lore

[Rocl]

A bigger hole, imo, is that Tiamat is typically the Wind-aspected fiend, not Water, when she appears in such a role.

It's difficult to pin down proper "elements" for the wyrms, though the connection between the heavens and the seven great wyrms isn't unfounded, imo. Especially when you take into account Tiamat refers to Nidhogg as coming "to this star" as if he was some kind of ancient alien.

I'd want to put Tiamat in the wind column cuz of FF tradition, but our meeting with her rekindles our Crystal of Fire.
I'd want to put Nidhogg in the lightning column because our meeting with him rekindles our Crystal of Lightning, but Ratatoskr's blood forms the Dark Levin crystals of Tharl Oom Khash.
I'd want to put Hraesvelgr in the ice column due to his relationship with Shiva, but the Churning Mists and cutscenes featuring him there are very windy!
It gets very complicated trying to puzzle it out with the pieces we have.

I look forward to Thalaos being revealed as the long lost water wyrm tho.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Sinp

Ah ok. Well until the 6th and 7th dragons are revealed it'd be almost impossible to categorize them as we've only seen 4 at all and Ratatoskr is dead. I still hold to the Dragons and Heavens connection but it may take some time to piece anything together. I'll also need to complete the Astrologen Quest line my self as most of my Astrologen knowledge is second hand. So it'll take time but by all means I love seeing theory holes as each false lead is one step closer to the truth. So to quote Director Yoshida, "Please look forward to it."

[Daralii]

It's difficult to pin down proper "elements" for the wyrms, though the connection between the heavens and the seven great wyrms isn't unfounded, imo. Especially when you take into account Tiamat refers to Nidhogg as coming "to this star" as if he was some kind of ancient alien.

Could also be interdimensional travel, I guess. Would that make Midgardsormr and his children eikons?

[treuhavik]

Would that make Midgardsormr and his children eikons?

Shhhhh! (whispers) Daralii, they'll here you...! o_o *hands darksteelfoil hat*

[treuhavik]

Sorry for the double post, but if we're going there, I suppose I'll further the digression from the thread topic and share my latest musings on the subject.

*equips his own darksteel-foil hat*

What I believe to be the defining characteristic of Eikons is that they are naturally occurring. What I mean by this is that an Eikon is, in essence, more primordial than the primals we know. They are the 'originals', born of the land and returning to it upon death, much like a primal, but are able to return at will instead of relying on someone to summon them, as they are actual beings of the world's aether. The only way to stop an Eikon from appearing would be to lock it away and keep it from death.

It's hard not to draw similarities between the means of their here assumed existence/survival and the immortality the Echo provides those who've mastered it. Also, being of the planet, it only makes sense to envision them as guardians of it.

What do you do when you're trying to alter the world and the life forms of it and are confronted by aetherial protectors of the that same planet? Well, I suppose you'd dispose of themin one way or another. And if death isn't an option, why not capture them and use them as fuel for your aetherochemical research?

Conversely, what do you do when the protectors you depended upon suddenly and seemingly abandon you? You pray for their return, probably near their preferred environment -- a place likely sharing in that being's elemental aspect.

And a primal is born...

Unlike an Eikon, a primal is a thoughtform given life by the desire for their appearance and enough aether to physically manifest it. To drive this point home, even if a primal is sealed, there's nothing yet stating that another copy of it could not be subsequently summoned. An example of this would be Bahamut. Even though a primal already going by the name Bahamut was kept in a spherical prison orbiting the planet, another Bahamut could've been summoned if Tiamat had felt like giving it another shot.

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When we first saw Midgardsormr 'awaken' in The Keeper of the Lake, I couldn't help but assume that he, too, possessed the power of the Echo, seeing as his 'soul' was still present and that he was able to commune with Hydaelyn.

This brings to mind another question, a question of whether or not Hydaelyn, the deity that we know, shares more than just a name with the planet Midgardsormr, and ourselves, protect.



Merging what little we know of Midgardsormr's arrival on Hydaelyn, he came bearing the seeds of Dragonkind and this occurred nigh-simultaneously with the 'creation' of water...

Going back to Eikons, we know of four: 'Goddess', 'Fiend', 'Demon' and Odin; each bearing a different appearance... Did each of them birth their own race...?

If so, Midgardsormr is a perfect fit for our fifth-discovered Eikon, and it's easy enough to pin him as attributed to the element of water.

And IF Midgardsormr truly is a 'primordial' could he have been mistaken as a primal by an outside nation, halting their invasion in the same year he destroyed an entire fleet of their finest...?


That's all for now. Consider the pot stirred. Loremonger Vicious out.

[kog985]

I always thought the 7th element would be Aether. o_O Clarify me If I'm wrong.

[WyrahFhurrst]

I always thought the 7th element would be Aether. o_O Clarify me If I'm wrong.

Aether makes up the elements, so it couldn't be.

[iiroro]

7 Dragons, 7 Constelations, 7 Eorzian Elements.

The basis for the last three being Tiamat js ocationally the Arcfiend of Water, Lightning Crystals apear near where Ratatoskr was killed, and Bahamut being traditionally non elemental. Thus leaving only the Earth Dragon unacounted for.

For the 7 Constellations, or the Heavens, there are also 7 corresponding Hells.

As for your speculation with the dragons, you have forgotten Ice. I agree that Hraesvelgr is possibly associated with Wind, as in Norse mythos he is a giant who shape shifts into an eagle, but he's elemental affinity may instead be Ice. My reasoning is mostly because his association with Saint Shiva (Shiva always being represented as the Ice Summon in the FF franchise), and to a superficial extent he's white...

I'm also not sure if Ratatoskr's elemental affinity is Lightning, again going back to the Norse mythos, Ratatoskr is a squirrel and the only squirrels I know with Lightning powers are in Smite and Pokémon.

[WyrahFhurrst]

There's only 6 constellations, as they correspond to the six elemental heavens. The seventh cannot be attuned to and doesn't have a constellation. The constellations probably only have a connection to the dragons in so far as they both have elements (if the dragons do in fact have elements). I myself think the dragons aren't elementally related, but have their own energy that does not relate to Hydaelyn's six elements.

[Kaiser-Ace]

There's only 6 constellations, as they correspond to the six elemental heavens. The seventh cannot be attuned to and doesn't have a constellation. The constellations probably only have a connection to the dragons in so far as they both have elements (if the dragons do in fact have elements). I myself think the dragons aren't elementally related, but have their own energy that does not relate to Hydaelyn's six elements.

Uh, Unaspected is a 7th element so to speak. Unaspected element (Nulity) is the invisable element as the seventh heaven is also invisible. as for a constelation, if The Planet Hydealyn is in a constelation naturally people ON the Planet Hydaelyn wouldn't be able to see it. 7 Dragons, 7 Elements, 7 Heavens, 7 hells. The Constilations are mearly gates to the heavens. But 7 seems to be a magic number here.