[dev 1032] Alternative to Specialization, a FFT based system

[Kimahri]

At any rate, Azure_Heaven. Having your base rank being able to become either of two jobs seems logical.

[Kurokikaze]

While you say that my proposal makes the current classes "obstacles" or "road blocks" this tactics system essentially does that. Why should someone need to level 2 other things to do something they want? You're imposing an arbitrary road block yourself - but the mentality around here is that since its from FF Tactics its totally ok and everyone gets a hard-on seeing it mentioned.

Also, isn't that a little too grindy for non-FF players? You need to think about these things more. The people on these forums aren't going to be the target audience in the long run.

[Kimahri]

While you say that my proposal makes the current classes "obstacles" or "road blocks" this tactics system essentially does that. Why should someone need to level 2 other things to do something they want? You're imposing an arbitrary road block yourself - but the mentality around here is that since its from FF Tactics its totally ok and everyone gets a hard-on seeing it mentioned.

Also, isn't that a little too grindy for non-FF players? You need to think about these this more.

That was the point I was trying to get at, Kurokikaze. (Man I see your ass in a lot of posts. Haha!) I wouldn't see an objection to leveling a certain Class, like Marauder, to 25(20, 25, 30....Whichever your preference.) and being able to hence forth choose between Marauder or one(or two) advance(d) classes.

[Azure_Heaven]

While you say that my proposal makes the current classes "obstacles" or "road blocks" this tactics system essentially does that. Why should someone need to level 2 other things to do something they want? You're imposing an arbitrary road block yourself - but the mentality around here is that since its from FF Tactics its totally ok and everyone gets a hard-on seeing it mentioned.

Also, isn't that a little too grindy for non-FF players? You need to think about these things more. The people on these forums aren't going to be the target audience in the long run.

Sorry, i dont think that section was as clear as i wanted it to be. It your system it felt like GLD or MRD was nothing but a thing u used to get to PLD or DRK. In my system i want GLD and MRD to be their own defined classes, that bring something to the game beyond just a bland piece of paper to make what you really want on.

And whats the difference if i have to level 2 jobs for 40k xp total than levelings 1 job for 40k xp? You still need 40k xp. It is no more grindy in either way. It just makes more lore sense no?

ie How does a GLD, from a lore stand point, suddenly start casting Cure spells and stuff, when all he has done is practice his swordplay? (which in game play is the GLD getting 40k xp or getting 20k xp as GLD and 20k xp from CON)

[Kurokikaze]

Sorry, i dont think that section was as clear as i wanted it to be. It your system it felt like GLD or MRD was nothing but a thing u used to get to PLD or DRK. In my system i want GLD and MRD to be their own defined classes, that bring something to the game beyond just a bland piece of paper to make what you really want on.

And whats the difference if i have to level 2 jobs for 40k xp total than levelings 1 job for 40k xp? You still need 40k xp. It is no more grindy in either way. It just makes more lore sense no?

ie How does a GLD, from a lore stand point, suddenly start casting Cure spells and stuff, when all he has done is practice his swordplay? (which in game play is the GLD getting 40k xp or getting 20k xp as GLD and 20k xp from CON)

Answer 1:
I don't see that being an option just based on what was said by Yoshi-P. In his example there were two choices:

1. Linear progression: Gladiator will turn into Paladin.
2. Specialization: Final Fantasy classes as specializations for the current classes.

In neither of these options could you keep the current classes competitive as a standalone class.

Answer 2:
The difference is an extra 40k exp that people have to grind to get back to the point they were at; as their preferred class. All because you made them level two other classes to get there.

Answer 3:
Lore is story - they make that up as they go. Gladiators in the guild could call you up and say "Hey, we've thought of a way to mix conjury with swordplay and would like to blah blah blah blah." - I'm clearly not a scenario writer... Anyways you don't have to try to make sense out of it through mechanics and excessive grinding just to satisfy lore.

Whats going to happen to that Conjurer after the fact? Am I going to need to grind it more to further my PLD and get higher level cures? More roadblocks? Yes I said it.

[Azure_Heaven]

Answer 1:
I don't see that being an option just based on what was said by Yoshi-P. In his example there were two choices:

1. Linear progression: Gladiator will turn into Paladin.
2. Specialization: Final Fantasy classes as specializations for the current classes.

In neither of these options could you keep the current classes competitive as a standalone class.

Answer 2:
The difference is an extra 40k exp that people have to grind to get back to the point they were at; as their preferred class. All because you made them level two other classes to get there.

Answer 3:
Lore is story - they make that up as they go. Gladiators in the guild could call you up and say "Hey, we've thought of a way to mix conjury with swordplay and would like to blah blah blah blah." - I'm clearly not a scenario writer... Anyways you don't have to try to make sense out of it through mechanics and excessive grinding just to satisfy lore.

Whats going to happen to that Conjurer after the fact? Am I going to need to grind it more to further my PLD and get higher level cures? More roadblocks? Yes I said it.

Answer to answer 1

I dont think 1. is actually exactly what he said, just ur interpretation, as i remember the quote he was rather vague.

Answer to answer 2

So you think bc i lvled GLD to 20 and CON to 20 my PLD should be 20? by that logic everyone who levels 1 class to 50 should have all classes to 50. Hell, why not just create a character maxed level for everyone?

I dont seem to understand why it would be so bad for the player to have to lvl their new unlocked class from 1 to max?

Answer to answer 3

No, the lore doesnt have to make sense. But why even write it if it doesnt make sense? Why even have it for that matter? I dont know about you, and each person is different, but I like the lore of a game. I like the lore to be believeable (or as believeable as it can be). Having a GLD suddenly back to cast spells, that other ppl have to train for just doesnt float for me. But that is just a personal thing i guess.

And i dont get ur last comment, why cant PLD just get Cure spells as they level? Why does the Cure series of spells have to be only limited to CON?

[Amsai]

No thanks. I like the talent tree idea with a FF spin better.

[Kimahri]

If I'm wrong, tell me, but this is starting to sound JUST like FFXI. I mean.....You had to level a job to 30 to gain access to a quest(some you had to get fame as well) just to unlock a job....That's just basically slapping a new skin on an already used approach. Don't get me wrong. I like XI, but we don't have to copy it that bad.

[Azure_Heaven]

If I'm wrong, tell me, but this is starting to sound JUST like FFXI. I mean.....You had to level a job to 30 to gain access to a quest(some you had to get fame as well) just to unlock a job....That's just basically slapping a new skin on an already used approach. Don't get me wrong. I like XI, but we don't have to copy it that bad.

It does have some resemblance to FFXI but not as much

Bc w the FFT style system, you will have more classes you can select skills from than just 1 subjob

For example, with PLD you have access to all PLD skills at full affinity, access to GLD and CON skill at 70 affinity and all skills at 50 affinity

[Xeona]

I enjoy this idea very much.

Kurokikaze has a great idea as well.

I however enjoy (idea wise) not having to respec as Kurokikaze's idea works, if I wanted to play the other job.


Anyone in this game as well as in XI was able to choose which job to play whenever they wanted. Granted you had to have certain jobs unlocked, once you unlocked them you could choose what to play. All you had to do mostly was change some or all gear out.


The method expressed in this topic seems to have an advantage in that one doesn't "lose" the "basic" job in effort to get the more "advanced".

The affinity reference makes sense. It keeps the system of being able to equip other jobs abilities but has a built in feature of balancing them at the same time.

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Aside from unlocking extra jobs, we could just simply gain access to more jobs in patches or expansions. With either idea proposed by this thread or Kurokikaze's, one has to spend some time playing in order to get the other jobs. This is a built in benefit in order to "train" players at least some sort of skill set before they get to more advanced jobs.

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Either way, or a different way if the devs so choose, we will have to see additions to weapons if that is going to remain the way in which we choose our job.