The Death Of CC

[Verdan]

Yo how come I can't sleep anything anymore? I really dislike that a huge part of my utility just straight disappeared after a while.

[HyperiusUltima]

Yo how come I can't sleep anything anymore? I really dislike that a huge part of my utility just straight disappeared after a while.

You're going to have to be a bit more specific. On what mobs did you attempt this on?

[SarcasmMisser]

If you have access to sleep you have access to either a much better CC ability (holy) or you are starving yourself of DPS.

Or both.

[HyperiusUltima]

If you have access to sleep you have access to either a much better CC ability (holy) or you are starving yourself of DPS.

Or both.

He's a BLM, not a WHM. What he was saying was that he has lost his utility to stop damage from a pack of mobs for 30 seconds, and that in itself is a form of mitigation if the tank is either undergeared, or if the healer is undergeared and can't keep heals up as well.

[SarcasmMisser]

He's a BLM, not a WHM. What he was saying was that he has lost his utility to stop damage from a pack of mobs for 30 seconds, and that in itself is a form of mitigation if the tank is either undergeared, or if the healer is undergeared and can't keep heals up as well.

It also stops them from AoEing, which can stop mitigation by killing mobs. Straight up if you were sleeping enemies as a BLM post-50 you are playing wrong.

[Razzorn]

It also stops them from AoEing, which can stop mitigation by killing mobs. Straight up if you were sleeping enemies as a BLM post-50 you are playing wrong.

That's the point. What the OP means is that sleep might as well not exist. Trash in dungeons is so brain dead easy that CC is straight up worthless. What used to take some actual coordination and strategy turned into an AoE fest every pull. You can take the same exact strategy and apply it to trash in basically any instance in the game. It was designed this way unfortunately. Most everything that would rip you apart has a telegraph that can be easily avoided. When was the last time a regular mob did something to make it worthy of being slept?

[SarcasmMisser]

What is the actual utility of sleep as CC though even if you needed CC? You can't attack enemies that are slept, sleep aggros them. Everything sleep does stun does better.

Sleep would be useful as a way to avoid enemies but thanks to whiners who can't handle more than 3 enemies at once they have countless gates in dungeons that force you to kill everything. It's a great CC ability to avoid enemies, and was used to that effect in wanderer's palace runs back in 2.0. It's a CC ability that is best used to avoid fighting enemies but people cried foul that people dare try to skip mobs, so enjoy not using sleep ever again.

[Shuon]

Wow.

I remember how sleep used to be awesome in dungeons when we were first tackling arr dungeons and not v geared. Pull a pack of 3, sleep, focus fire 1 down then move onto the nrxt. Its not actually slower than aoe-Ing them if you are barely geared for the content...

This whole aoe thing only became 'popular' because tanks and healers became overgeared and can pull like 6 to 9 mobs at once, thereby making aoe strictly more efficient, but only if the tanks and healers can handle it.

[SarcasmMisser]

Wow.

I remember how sleep used to be awesome in dungeons when we were first tackling arr dungeons and not v geared. Pull a pack of 3, sleep, focus fire 1 down then move onto the nrxt. Its not actually slower than aoe-Ing them if you are barely geared for the content...

This whole aoe thing only became 'popular' because tanks and healers became overgeared and can pull like 6 to 9 mobs at once, thereby making aoe strictly more efficient, but only if the tanks and healers can handle it.

That never happened and if it did you weren't playing with good BLMs. They were slept so you could run to the boss door and lock them out. They have slowly changed the design of dungeons to shoehorn people into fighting 3-4 mobs at a time without skipping a single one, rendering sleep pointless. If you have to kill what's ahead of you the most effective way is to just do it, and half of the jobs do it faster hitting multiple targets at a time. Stun allows you to do that, sleep doesn't, and the most useful stun in the game was an AoE spell that was absurdly overpowered in 2.0. No one who knows anything about BLMs in 2.0 would argue fire 1 on a single target at a time isn't slower than using AoE.

For everyone relying on the age of the content to try and claim that mob pulls in 2.0 were more careful and involved less mobs I'd invite you to look at a WPSR from 2.0 because you're remembering wrong and it was the complete opposite. It simply hasn't been possible to pull that many for over a year now.

hell, from what I can tell slept mobs don't receive enmity from folks being cured but DO receive enmity from flash or DoTs which don't wake them (any that don't inflict base damage, or any already on the monster when it is slept), so it can help keep hate off the healer as well

This is also completely wrong. They do continue generating threat which is awesome when you get whm or blms who sleep when running with a war, before the WAR can even overpower the mobs. Complete ignorance of what other players are dealing with.

[Urthdigger]

This is also completely wrong. They do continue generating threat which is awesome when you get whm or blms who sleep when running with a war, before the WAR can even overpower the mobs. Complete ignorance of what other players are dealing with.

If you mean how the person sleeping the mobs gets hate on monsters if they do so before the tank does overpower/flash, that's because inflicting sleep itself generates a small bit of enmity, enough that they're top of the list if nobody else does anything to it. That said, in my experience sleeping mobs after a single flash/overpower by a newbie tank actually helped him keep hate against curebombs. Whether I'm right, or the reduced damage and thus reduced healing needed was the sole factor, my experience has been that it can help in cases where the tank may have trouble keeping hate off the healer.