Endgame toxicity

[Colt47]

It's not only DF, it's PF too.
I find it hysterical how people get so damn pissed off and blow a blood vessel on this game.
It's just DF should be used as practice tbh, PF is more of a safer route, but a Static is the best bet.
Doing any harder end-game content is like finding a needle in a burning haystack.
Also, people get away with sh!t so much more in DF. I always expect the worse.

Right now, developers are still learning how to make MMORPGs that work for a mass market. Originally these games were incredibly niche so things like DF and PF were never needed. In the last decade we've seen more and more games try to be MMORPGs and a bigger push towards making a game that can fetch a huge audience in order to pay for servers and make it look good to investors. In the end I personally think that trying to fit a magic shoe that will work for everyone is going to fail. Trying to make one just results in a game that is like a summer action movie: Everyone goes and sees it, then forgets about it later on.

Also, often times DF isn't even good for practice. It's just too unpredictable for most high skill encounters to be reliable for learning or clearing content.

[Kuwagami]

No, starting your own PF doesn't solve it, because the raging and finger pointing starts the second something goes a little wrong, even if you DO still clear it.

Find better people and stick with them with LS/FL

Seriously, just last night, I got a ravana kill with only a bard alive soloing the last 4% (got lucky on last phase, liberation poped), and everyone was just joking around about how bad we were and how we should start caring about mechanics in last phase when we have to use heal LB (shit happens sometimes).

Toxicity exists, but so do the ways around it

[LegendWait]

Step 1: get friends/ fc mates
Step 2: learn how to properly dps with your new lvl60 skills
Step 3: Get mumble for maximum coordination
Step 4: profit

Thats all there is to it really, its EXTREME its meant to be handled like a challenge, not as something you can do while using Netflix.

[Able]

There's just as much toxicity coming from new players as veteran end-game players. The most negative experiences I've had in this game involved being told to go to hell when simply trying to help a new player.

Overall, I'd say most people fall into their own networks of friends and just assume everyone outside of that is a toxic player. However, I have no problem meeting decent people when I make the effort to communicate. A lot of people don't make that effort. That's the primary reason why the community isn't as good as it could be. It also, however, doesn't happen to be nearly as bad as everyone says it is.

[BlaiseArath]

{This is directed at no specific person here}

Unfortunately, people who use the word "Toxic" are usually synonymous with elitist bashing, unwilling to learn, "Bad players" to most of the endgame community who regularly clears content. People don't want to carry some lazy butt through content because they won't listen to advice or take everything way to personally and expect to be coddled and never be without their comfort zone.


For some players when it comes to wanting experienced players, Its a defense mechanism after dealing with the type of people who don't want to learn and weigh the group down, or dealing with "learning" people who just can't grasp basic concepts or are terrible at their job. At some point, the people doing the fight get tired of inviting people who make you question how they get their shoes on, and just try to get people who have the win or clear.

I've done my fair share of learning parties, and eventually it gets old trying to teach people a fight they clearly cannot comprehend. Its not to say that I don't still occasionally do learning parties because everyone has to start somewhere... but It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that people will eventually get sick of teaching people and just want to CLEAR and/or FARM it. If you don't see a Party finder for a learning party, make one, its your best bet, and you'll find people who want to help new players or people who want to learn themselves.

There will always be jerks in this game, but people who want experienced players aren't jerks just because they don't want their farm party to be a learning party. Make your own learning party, you might still get jerks but hey, after dealing with the "Its my way or i leave" learning party tanks, you'll maybe come to understand why people say screw it and make clear parties more than learning.

(Although the people who make party finders like the one in the OP are generally over-controlling d*ck heads too, so best to avoid them even if you're experienced lol... at the end of the day, best to make friends or find a good Learning FC)

[Veji]

Or just ignore them and get a decent FC. Thats what i do and i have no issues.

[Onikimaru]

As someone who has cleared turn 13 before echo and is all about min maxing, i disagree with

people who use the word "Toxic" are usually synonymous with elitist bashing, unwilling to learn, "Bad players"

I don't classify the current end-game population to be overall toxic, but it's definitely getting bigger in that regard. 2 days after the expansion EA release there were people complaining about people not skipping cutscenes, not using certain abilities etc...5 days after there were parties saying crap like "know fight or kick" "die once get kicked". It's actually getting really bad for a lot of players.

I asked a couple of groups if i could join for BEX i knew the fight in it's entirety, i was greeted with "no" then i was ignored. Now as a said above, as someone who has cleared all the coil, if somebody ever said they knew the fight, i gave them a chance to prove it as i hosted farm parties and loot allocation groups. Now it seems like people are getting a lot more selfish, it's all about me me me me me, nobody wants to help anyone else out. Sure you can get yourself a static, but that is easier said than done. Especially since you want a group with your skill level, and people that you've known for awhile or people that you can get along with.

Now whether people want to classify the "no" don't bother me attitude as toxic, i guess that's fair. But i like to consider the hunts attitude as toxic, I.E abusive, condescending etc..

[Chihaya]

So they have time to spend hours farming. But not spend 10 to 15 minutes teaching a new player about an EX fight. That's some lovely logic.

It may only take 5-10 mins to explain the fight but it may take hours watching you fk up and wipe the group

It is not uncommon for learning parties to time out of instances and raids and not get a clear out of it. Look at the road block that was T5/T9 or even Ex Primals. Some of these can be 4-7 manned even before the expansion. Yet even up until the expansion people are still complaining they are too hard - learning groups failing etc.
Heck, there was a thread about T5 how people can't do divebombs right before the expansion. They "knew" the mechanics but still manage to wipe the group, GG

When people make a farm party, they are there to farm, not to carry you.
If you want to learn the fight, make/join learning parties or find your FC/LS friends.

[Nadirah]

Step 1: get friends/ fc mates
Step 2: learn how to properly dps with your new lvl60 skills
Step 3: Get mumble for maximum coordination
Step 4: profit

Thats all there is to it really, its EXTREME its meant to be handled like a challenge, not as something you can do while using Netflix.

Mumble is trash.

I run a TS server. My runs can use it. I refuse to use Mumble.

[Chihaya]

Mumble is trash.

I run a TS server. My runs can use it. I refuse to use Mumble.

TS, Mumble, Vent, what's the difference... all VoIPs
I don't have any servers but I have all 3 of those installed depending which VoIP the group have/want to use.