Endgame toxicity

[Elazu]

Content sellers are the cause of what is bad is FFXIV, promoting bad play, why learn when you can pay someone to carry plus promoting buying Gil. Anyone who disagrees with that are in denial.

Looks like you are in denial. Content BUYERS are what's wrong, since they create the market for sellers.

I stay away from endgame content for this particular reason. The sad thing is it makes me miss out on some story. The good thing is that there's still a lot to enjoy in the game and as content becomes older it's easier to do. Because the elitists move on to the new stuff and the people who play for fun get grouped up more. It still sucks you got to wait and I agree with the OP that some players in 14 are jerks but you can't fix it.

This is hilarious. Do you honestly believe that people doing endgame are not having fun? Really?

On another note, since I just experienced it again. You know what is REALLY toxic? The hunting community.

[kanjitai]

Looks like you are in denial. Content BUYERS are what's wrong, since they create the market for sellers.



This is hilarious. Do you honestly believe that people doing endgame are not having fun? Really?

On another note, since I just experienced it again. You know what is REALLY toxic? The hunting community.

I should rephrase what I said. I'm not saying all endgame is bad and I'm sure people are having fun with it but certain endgame content isn't worth it because the people who do it are mean. Like an earlier example in this thread about people having unreasonable exceptions of people and unfortunately it's not confined to PF. I got cursed out the other night in a dungeon because I made a mistake in a fight. We still won but the point is players are expecting perfection out of others but aren't willing to help others learn and make a better community.

[Wavaryen]

Really? And here I thought this community was suppose better than most mmos.

Well, whatever people are right that it is their group they have a right to make it how they want... Even though it does leave a bad taste in the mouth for people who enjoy grouping, and want to try even if it is first time.

[FrejyaAthenes]

Really? And here I thought this community was suppose better than most mmos.

Unfortunately, there's no such thing. All communities are made up by people, after all.

[lvlagmarink]

snip

That's still descent, i've seen worse like
"Helping for a friend to get a clear, 100% EXP, WIPE = KICK"

There are no sort of things that could justify this as someone want others to perform a carry but the maker doesnt want to carry others..

Personally I think they should of just added EX modes to DF, despite the negative connotations people have with DF the reality is I have had almost as much success with DF groups as I have with PF ones.

I second this.. I actually got more wins from Random DFs despite many failure attempts rather than countless PF..

The reason is simple. In the PuG environment, everyone assumes everyone else has already beaten the fight and can carry each other through the fight. So the minute something goes wrong it goes from "ez carry' to "crap now I have to try hard to make this work, well if I wanted to do that I'd join a static and put 40 hours a week into raiding! Why can't these idiots carry me? They've already done the fight right?"

Also literally anyone can say "i've researched the fight, I know the fight" when they have not. Years of abuse by lazy, sorry players has lead to intolerance. Slack jawed, glassy eyed maggots that want to ride on your coat-tails to loot and glory have been plaguing the PuG scene and the tolerance for wipes and failures and newbs has long since been erased.

There are times that i'm imagining these people who join into these PFs are fractions of people on different statics, i've joined several statics when there are someone or the leader who would read up the boss' rotation.. However since the leaders are offline and noone read it from them in these PFs, these people just failed badly while comparing their performance to their statics one which runs very smoothly.. While i cant claim this theory to be true, that's just how i feel because i've seen people from the before mention statics without the leaders and they are like headless chickens..

[Snugglebutt]

That's still descent, i've seen worse like
"Helping for a friend to get a clear, 100% EXP, WIPE = KICK"

There are no sort of things that could justify this as someone want others to perform a carry but the maker doesnt want to carry others..

I do see that a lot these days. Hence my previous comment somewhat alluded to such instances. In the end I will probably make my own PF for it when I get around to trying it like I used to do for older content but I would still have preferred SE added them to DF for those who do not want to go through the hassle of having to deal with the sort of people who create such PF parties as you mentioned.

[zcrash970]

I don't see the problem. It is a farm group meaning that the party leader wants fast and easy clears. More than likely a person that doesn't have a clear can't do that.

[Snugglebutt]

I don't see the problem. It is a farm group meaning that the party leader wants fast and easy clears. More than likely a person that doesn't have a clear can't do that.

Does not mean the party leader is even capable of clearing it himself without being carried which happens a lot even in farming parties in my experience or PF's which have things like must prove have cleared it, if die equals kick and so on. It's one rule for them another for everyone else far too often when those same people die and they don't get kicked, they fall behind in DPS or lose concentration and let everyone else down yet don't get kicked.

More than would expect I also encounter those who think they are pros, have clears, have the achievements and such die just as much as the new player, mess up just as much and for example back when did T5 I made a learning PF that had two so called pros with multiple clears under their belt and egos to match come in and promise it would be easy with them there because they often farmed it yet during the instance three out of the four wipes was solely because of their mistakes and their errors...their own bad performance.

Unfortunately PF has created too many elitists who are overconfident in their own abilities, happy to put high restrictions on others yet rage when those same restrictions might be applied to themselves. There is one restriction however that annoys me more than any other and that is the no soldiery, poetics, law type one. I hate that because I believe people should be given the chance, if they fail a lot so be it and maybe kick them but to not even give them a chance to prove themselves annoys me.

That's not to say all PF groups are bad or have such happen but too often I have found that to be the case in which the one who made the PF with it's restriction is the one who ultimately causes a lot of the wipes or is the one being carried and they placed such high restrictions because of their own lack of competence which requires others of even higher quality to make up for it. Those with lower restrictions are at times more competent which allowed for lower restrictions because they don't need to be carried. A lot of the time those with lower restrictions are nicer people, friendlier, more helpful and more capable to which they take others under their wing and teach them.

I also have noticed that many times the new players who have read a guide or watched a video of the fight just prior to trying it for first time are more capable of clearing it than many of those with previous clears because the tactics are fresh in their memory and they are trying harder than those with clears who have become complacent, over-confident and cocky. The PF's that have very high requirements to me are a sign that the PF leader is potentially incompetent, so incompetent that they need to outsource a higher quality set of players to compensate their own incompetence.

In the end the only real solution at the moment is people making their own PF's to counter balance those that have placed silly restrictions or silly requirements. Those with such restrictions yet end up being carried themselves and/or apply one rule for themselves and another for everyone else. I don't see any other way around it until it gets added to DF later.

[zcrash970]

snip

Yes, there are people that think they are "pro" and end up getting carried. Yes, they are very overconfident in their abilities. Yes, mistakes do happen. But guess what .... no one cares that you got distracted. No one cares that you are nothing more than cannon fodder. They only care about the loot at the end. They rather trust the horrible player over than the good player that hasn't cleared. No one likes to take chances.
If the party leader can't farm, the group will disband and the good players will remake the group.

Actually the whole, " Kicked if you die," is a deterrent for most people, so only serious people who wants to farm join. Most groups only kick the really bad people or trying mooch a clear