Endgame toxicity

[Snugglebutt]

I don't see the problem. It is a farm group meaning that the party leader wants fast and easy clears. More than likely a person that doesn't have a clear can't do that.

Does not mean the party leader is even capable of clearing it himself without being carried which happens a lot even in farming parties in my experience or PF's which have things like must prove have cleared it, if die equals kick and so on. It's one rule for them another for everyone else far too often when those same people die and they don't get kicked, they fall behind in DPS or lose concentration and let everyone else down yet don't get kicked.

More than would expect I also encounter those who think they are pros, have clears, have the achievements and such die just as much as the new player, mess up just as much and for example back when did T5 I made a learning PF that had two so called pros with multiple clears under their belt and egos to match come in and promise it would be easy with them there because they often farmed it yet during the instance three out of the four wipes was solely because of their mistakes and their errors...their own bad performance.

Unfortunately PF has created too many elitists who are overconfident in their own abilities, happy to put high restrictions on others yet rage when those same restrictions might be applied to themselves. There is one restriction however that annoys me more than any other and that is the no soldiery, poetics, law type one. I hate that because I believe people should be given the chance, if they fail a lot so be it and maybe kick them but to not even give them a chance to prove themselves annoys me.

That's not to say all PF groups are bad or have such happen but too often I have found that to be the case in which the one who made the PF with it's restriction is the one who ultimately causes a lot of the wipes or is the one being carried and they placed such high restrictions because of their own lack of competence which requires others of even higher quality to make up for it. Those with lower restrictions are at times more competent which allowed for lower restrictions because they don't need to be carried. A lot of the time those with lower restrictions are nicer people, friendlier, more helpful and more capable to which they take others under their wing and teach them.

I also have noticed that many times the new players who have read a guide or watched a video of the fight just prior to trying it for first time are more capable of clearing it than many of those with previous clears because the tactics are fresh in their memory and they are trying harder than those with clears who have become complacent, over-confident and cocky. The PF's that have very high requirements to me are a sign that the PF leader is potentially incompetent, so incompetent that they need to outsource a higher quality set of players to compensate their own incompetence.

In the end the only real solution at the moment is people making their own PF's to counter balance those that have placed silly restrictions or silly requirements. Those with such restrictions yet end up being carried themselves and/or apply one rule for themselves and another for everyone else. I don't see any other way around it until it gets added to DF later.

[MetaRed]

I blame a large part of this type of mentality the OP describes on the way the community has flocked to YouTube videos and guides as a way to "train up" to clear content. It's created this atmosphere where everyone is impatient and unwilling to learn to overcome a challenge as a group and build camaraderie.

The community for the most part is really toxic and rude, and in my experience a lot of the rudest, most toxic players are also really really bad at the game to boot, but love to point out others mistakes.

I enjoy the game and the content the developers provide us but I only experience it with my static raid group... Venturing out into party finders and duty finders is not worth the hassle because people are rude and self righteous. I really feel for people that haven't found a group of people to run with and are forced to deal with the issues I see in party finder and duty finder.

[Dement]

This is exactly why, as a new player (with my first character at 51 and still not yet done with the level 50 content) I'm not in a huge rush to get to HW at all. These types of folks who make end-game content into a job are in every game. They were in WoW when I left, and they were much of the reason that I never did instanced group content in WoW. I wasn't willing to put up with the elitists and trolls in group content to play the game. I didn't have to do it there to play the game, but apparently I must do it in FF to clear the story content.

That pretty much sucks if there are going to be elitists in group content. Perhaps I'll never get to finish the story in HW until it's "old content" like ARR content is now, when everyone is on to the next xpac and only runs the old content once daily to get the xp and currencies. /shrug There are plenty of things to do in FF, though I supposed there's a possibility that I'll run out of things to do and then have to unsub and play something else. It is quite sad that people have to be elitist jerks over a game.

You won't have the same problem with the end of HW like you did with ARR. You have to run one final dungeon and do one final fight, both of which take a team. The difference is the dungeon is only a 4 man dungeon and only has a an intro scene and one short scene late in the dungeon. ARR's end had so many problems because it literally had 35 minutes of cutscenes to watch in CM and the Praetorium each. Most parties will wait for you to watch your ~3 minutes of cutscenes if you tell them you're new. It was asinine for SE to ever think people would twiddle their thumbs while new people watched 35 minutes.

As to endgame as a whole, it's honestly not nearly as bad as it's made out to be as long as you don't overstep your boundaries. If you've never been into a fight or never been to the last phase only join learning parties or create your own learning party. If you have been to the last phase but not cleared it and are comfortable with your execution, join clear parties but DO NOT join farm parties unless previously talking with the leader. As long as you are in a party commensurate with your skill level in a fight, you will rarely have too many problems save for the very occasional asshat. Toxicity in these fights stems from people who are brand new to a fight trying to join a farm party with 7 other people who can probably run the encounter in their sleep.

[Lewtskie]

This is exactly why, as a new player (with my first character at 51 and still not yet done with the level 50 content) I'm not in a huge rush to get to HW at all. These types of folks who make end-game content into a job are in every game. They were in WoW when I left, and they were much of the reason that I never did instanced group content in WoW. I wasn't willing to put up with the elitists and trolls in group content to play the game. I didn't have to do it there to play the game, but apparently I must do it in FF to clear the story content.

Extreme Primals are not story content. They're side content that stretches on what is established through the story content. Entirely not required for anything except maybe future Primal fights, if they were to still do that.

And you don't need to put up with the elitists? Obviously you aren't in a rush, you take things at your won pace so I don't see why you don't wait until you find like-minded players and do the content in your own way. Everyone acts as though they have to involve themselves with these horrible, terrible, vile heathens who just want to clear shit. Just don't bother with them? And yes, through PF or Linkshells or Free Companies, or even outside sources like forums or other websites you never have to even notice these evil players. They do their thing; you do yours. So you want to clear an EX Primal? Make a damn clear party if you don't see one. Don't just demand people hold responsibilities to teach everyone. This is Multiplayer but that doesn't mean they have to play with EVERY player. They stick to their people and just as they're going through the extra mile to make sure they can get shit done right and then, you just need to put effort into creating your little bubble.

[Malevicton]

You don't need to be rude to find like-minded people. You don't need to be friends to be nice to others. Actually it doesn't cost them anything to change the attitude. Do they speak that way with their parents/friends/colleagues/ strangers? I doubt. If not, why brings it online?

And also, be nice will get people join them faster, and with gratitudes.

Yeah, can you imagine if someone just made wild generalizations about large groups of people, saying things like "If I was their boss, they sure as hell will get their asses-kicked." or "If they have brain, they could make their party much more comfortable and others much more pleasant"? I mean why couldn't they just make their case without becoming aggressive, just like you're asking?

Let's be real, people are people. Courtesy is good and all, but condemning people for not being courteous (not even discourtesy really since they aren't being openly rude, just not being actively courteous) is just gonna make you bitter and defensive. And eventually you'll have found a reason to hate everyone.

[KisaiTenshi]

Is this just a problem on my server? or is FFXIV endgame's community really this bad, and new-to-endgame hostile?

There are definitely elitist jerks on every server.

[Chihaya]

Keep in mind that the majority of the player base are nowhere near that level of content. Wait until the normal players who have jobs and don't live with their parents get to 60.

Again this fking disgrace of pulling the RL card on a game forums.
It is perhaps they have a job and family to take care of rather than wasting hours teaching some random on the internet that they may not see again. It may sound mean/rude - but it is how it is.

[Krylo]

I can see both sides. On the one hand, without being able to even mention DPS numbers (because how would you have them without a parser), if I get someone who's underperforming, as two DPS in my first Bismark attempt the other night were, I can't say anything. Even anything polite--as I tend to be 'cause shit, man, it's only a game--like 'hey, I don't know your class very well but you're pulling pretty low numbers, maybe look around reddit a bit?' or 'are you saving/popping all your buffs for the burn phases?' or whatever. So if I want to avoid that my only option is to be kind of an ass in PF.

On the other hand, Bismark Ex drop 175 weapons. You can get 180 weapons from Law like, the first or second day that you're 60. As fast as you can unlock Bismark Ex, probably. Why would you get all RAWR FARM NO FUCK UPS ALLOWED on a fight that drops sub-standard gear? Just clear it and move on to Ravana, who actually drops an upgrade if you're so damn serious about the game.

[Rajeme]

snip

They simply reap what they sowed. If they are rude, there is no reason to be nice to them. Right right? Just like textbook.
The thing here is, courtesy is always a good thing in almost any kind of communication and this is not an argument to prove effective communication. Therefore I'm not gonna make it very bitter and defensive like majority of those arguments out there and don't worry, it's not like I'm writing in this topic because I hate them or anything, nor I've ever hated anyone because of discourtesy because ultimately, it's their loss, not mine. Just saying being courteous to people, even if you don't mean it, will almost always give better results, no?

[zcrash970]

snip

Yes, there are people that think they are "pro" and end up getting carried. Yes, they are very overconfident in their abilities. Yes, mistakes do happen. But guess what .... no one cares that you got distracted. No one cares that you are nothing more than cannon fodder. They only care about the loot at the end. They rather trust the horrible player over than the good player that hasn't cleared. No one likes to take chances.
If the party leader can't farm, the group will disband and the good players will remake the group.

Actually the whole, " Kicked if you die," is a deterrent for most people, so only serious people who wants to farm join. Most groups only kick the really bad people or trying mooch a clear