Endgame toxicity

[Nadirah]

Only problem I have with starting a group on PF is that I have absolutely 0 experience and no one wants to join a run led by someone with no experience.

Learning parties imply a teacher. When party leader doesn't know the fight....

Yeah.

I generally would tag along with FC mates, but I main AST, and most of them are healers, so there's no room.

[SyraLeo]

I don't have any problems with my limitless blue ex parties.

We all state "learning fight, try to clear" and people come on, once they see the dps isn't good, they leave, we grab another, same thing, grab another and after 2 days? we cleared it.

during the whole time no one was rude, everyone was pretty cool about it, people were like "yea the dps isn't good enough, sorry im leaving" "i'm leaving after this try" etc. etc.

then again, i'm on JP servers.

[Nadirah]

I don't have any problems with my limitless blue ex parties.

then again, i'm on JP servers.

This is almost exclusively a NA/EU problem. More NA than EU.

I personally avoid JP and EU servers for language reasons(I've been shit talked for being American/EN only) and I'm not good with the auto translate, but the community tends to be nicer... Til they find out I'm American ofc.

[AskaRay]

This is almost exclusively a NA/EU problem. More NA than EU.

I personally avoid JP and EU servers for language reasons(I've been shit talked for being American/EN only) and I'm not good with the auto translate, but the community tends to be nicer... Til they find out I'm American ofc.

Most people I know and talk to know I'm an American on an EU server... no one outright hates me for it (teased yes but serious haaate? no)? The JP servers I can see, but the EU servers? In fact I prefer the EU servers because personally I don't really like to play with other Americans (yes I see the irony but let's be honest here..)

[Ampheni]

I don't see why no law bonus in pf is a problem tbh. And I don't see the problem with mistakes = kick neither, as long as the party leader himself/herself honor to their own rules and also applies it on themselves, while not making it hard on (or verbally abuse) whoever failed to do as the party rules required.

But of course when they start looking down on others, then it's elitism. And when they verbally abuse others, then it's harassment. Which are indeed toxicity in the end game community.

I mean I have cleared Ravana Ex, now do I really want to spend another couple days grouping up with people who may or may not understand the entire fight yet just to get myself another totem? But well, guess what? It's not me being impatient to teach new comers, but in fact it's the new comers that's being impatient to learn. In my case, I usually spend 12+ hrs on ffxiv each day (Yes a lot I know. I can only sleep 2 hrs), if I actually manage to get a full group of people who are patient enough (even if they are new comers) to sit through that 12hrs straight without quitting midway, then I'd actually be very patiently teaching them the entire fight step by step. But the thing is, it's nearly impossible to get a full group with that kind of time to spend on learning.

So it's simply not a feasible way to get what I want to get, everytime I get new people in my group things will start becoming inconsistent and waiting for new group members is simply...not fun, it's like watching paint dry while you're just twiddling your thumbs.

The only logical conclusion to achieve my goal is to find people who have already cleared a run (Well yes, they might be carried, but the chance of getting a player that is learning is still lower), and it's logical that it may get extremely frustrating if people you were teaching just leave half way through the fight and you have to teach a new person all over again. It will be an endless cycle until you get lucky. And who would ever want to frustrates themselves over a game, especially when teaching people that are impatient/not dedicated enough to learn?

Tell me if that's toxicity coming from me, but until the days where people are willing to dedicated a good chunk of time and not just merely 3hrs learning then quit everytime when I start a group without requirements, then I will actually drop the no law bonus parties, because then I will actually make progress even with new comers.

[Delorean]

they are either going to be farming all day with that no deaths bit or not farming a damn thing really

things like that are usually said just to ward off the feint of heart. but content like bismarck ex can be really hard if your party is not pulling it's weight. you can put an item level of 170 required on there and it won't matter if your dps can't dps worth half a crap. or if your OT plays like they are colorblind.

join an fc to learn fights, pug them afterwards if you still want to do them. if you don't want to do that, you don't really have any other choice but to study the content and make your own groups.

[KaedrianLiang]

So you walk up to a bulletin board on campus or work, with a bunch of random notices, you see a bunch of phone numbers advertising jobs positions, services, up-coming events. You see an ad that says "LOOKING FOR COMPETENT HARD WORKING WORKERS to FILL A TEMPORARY JOB FOR THE HOLIDAYS"

Thats not toxic....

Toxic is a lone or handful of players que'ing CT (back when the mainsteam ilevel was 55-70) deliberately making impossible pulls with the intent of wiping the whole raid.

Racial slur/spam/dead end politics in /shout /raid.

You enter a level sync 17, dungeon as a Astrologian, Tank gets mad and starts spamming "WHERES PROTECT? CAST PROTECT NOW" Astrologian: "sorry its a whm spell" Tank: "OMG YOU NOOB! KICK THE ASTROLOGIAN KICK THEM!" Astrologian gets kicked. This just happened 10mins ago to a fellow FC member (the astrologian).

[SpookyGhost]

So. Here's the thing:

It's not okay to be strict in a learning group. If you specifically advertise your group as a learning one, then you must go in with the mentality that you will do nothing but wipe. For all of 2.0, I joined learning groups to either learn a fight or help people out. If you go into a learning group expecting a clear, you are the one that doesn't belong.

If you advertise your group as a CLEAR one, then your expectation is to use the time allotted to clear the content. You can also require experience up to a certain point, as you yourself have already learned up to that point and want like-minded people who are also up to that point to help you get past it and clear the fight (usually final phase experience). It is perfectly fine to expect some level of competence here, kicking people from your CLEAR group when they're not ready to clear makes 100% sense. You must earn the right to enter a clear group, it is not simply handed to you on a silver platter (that sounds a bit stupid to type, but honestly, you're just expecting a carry here which isn't cool for those 7 other players who put in the work to get here).

If you advertise your group as a FARM one, then you should expect farm level competence. Mistakes will happen, but outright misunderstanding of mechanics is a big red sign that that person shouldn't be in a farm group.

There is a very easy to see progression here:

Go into/start a learning group -> progress up to the point where you understand all the mechanics up to the last phase -> go into/start a clear group -> clear the content -> make sure you understand ALL the mechanics of the last phase -> go into/start a farm group -> enjoy farming.

If you try to skip a step, people will notice. You will likely get kicked, maybe you'll get extremely lucky and get carried, but more often than not it'll be the former. This isn't toxic behavior, it is completely reasonable behavior. If you don't see the type of group you want in PF, start one yourself - no one will stop you.

[Nadirah]

@Kaed

I sync into a level 17 dungeon I have protect. It's a lowbie Conjurer spell. It's in my first cross class slot. I sacrifice cleric stance in those boring ass lowbie dungeons to shut those tanks up.

You want CNJ/WHM to 34 for Stoneskin anyway.

[odie]

@Kaed

I sync into a level 17 dungeon I have protect. It's a lowbie Conjurer spell. It's in my first cross class slot. I sacrifice cleric stance in those boring ass lowbie dungeons to shut those tanks up.

You want CNJ/WHM to 34 for Stoneskin anyway.

That's what I did. It only took that one time queueing into a lowbie dungeon and that awkwardness that occurred when I wasn't able to cast it.. lol