Endgame toxicity

[Lewtskie]

You people really have no reading comprehension whatsoever, do you? The point is for people to not be such whiny mingebags about their precious farming, especially when content is so new. Not that "omg this isn't a party I want to join". As a matter of fact, the accusation of wanting easy clears/carries is something the OP outright stated towards the people that MAKE these hostilely-worded PFs. Seriously, try actually reading a post before replying to it.

Only person to start whining was the OP and it was certainly about all dem Farm Parties.

It's impossible to find a group that will even give you the time of day if it's your first time doing a fight, people just want easy mode.

Whining about no learning parties.

The whole if you die, you're out mentality is completely retarded ontop of that, these fights are a little over a week old and people are just starting to hit endgame that didn't rush to 60. (Unlike me.. /cough )

More whining, but this time about the conditions people place in PF.

But seriously? I've beat Bismark EX once, and it was at ilvl 160, and we had no serious issues, took a couple of tries, but we did fine, now people just seem to be wanting a group to easily carry them through these primal battles? I tried one of the Ravana EX groups earlier (One with the 3 strike rule) Leader died 8 times and was probably the worst geared of everyone there.

Now we get to that other point, but it certainly comes out of left field and wasn't before bitching about the fact that she couldn't find certain parties, cause god forbid people want to do things their way. Personally find it silly to take something so seriously, but what makes them whiney about wanting no shit/straight to business/get it done?

Also, yes, not every party that demands clears and exp is not a carry group, paranoid as you people are.

P.S. No Reading Comprehension; first couple lines of the OP; just leaving this here.

[Peekachu33]

My anecdotal story. I'm currently out of a FC; I won't jump into one lightly and I'd rather be "unguilded" than in a FC I don't care for. As a result, I'm forced to use PF and the friends list to complete raid content. It works out well. Now, regarding Bismarck EX, the only way I was able to get a clear was when I politely enforced restrictions. Melee dps and SMN only. We downed the whale on the first try. The DRG was new, even, but had been to phase 3 before. It was quite epic actually, a bunch of us wiped on phase 4 and it was just me and a monk. I went into full on zombie mode (iZombie reference) and distracted the adds, without heals, for 10s while the MNK finished off Moby Dick with a LVL 1 LB.

Can Bismarck EX be done with a full range of DPS? Of course. However, anyone with a parser or common sense can see that it's simply easier for certain classes to push out raw burst than others since HW came along. I'm empathetic as to the reasons why, however, I don't have to dedicate my scarce gaming time and the time of others to teaching/ praying/ hoping others can maximize their roles. It's a development issue, too--not wholly player error or a learning curve. I just wanted to get that content out of the way and this was the "potential" path of least resistance. Sure, people can still suck, but at least I'd done everything numerically possible to ensure a win after bashing my head against that fight for days (and literally never missing a step).

In the current content one weak or derping link breaks the whole chain. Hell, I even joined a 6/8 "guaranteed clear for a FC member" party and they derped all over the place and passed maybe half the dps checks (BRD and MCH in that particular party, make of that what you will).

[Lewtskie]

In the current content one weak or derping link breaks the whole chain. Hell, I even joined a 6/8 "guaranteed clear for a FC member" party and they derped all over the place and passed maybe half the dps checks (BRD and MCH in that particular party, make of that what you will).

I've content myself with knowing that I'll not be touching BisEx until SE rolls out whatever tweaks they hinted at with BRD. It kinda sucks, but I'm not about to deal with shit and I'm certainly not gonna try and defend my shit cause I know we ain't matchin' with the rest, lol.

[Sartori]

Like I said DF has been the downfall of this game, plain and simple. Back in the good old days we use to get a party together and grind away till we new the fight and beat it. There absolutely no comradery anymore in the game.....

[Mhikail]

Like I said DF has been the downfall of this game, plain and simple. Back in the good old days we use to get a party together and grind away till we new the fight and beat it. There absolutely no comradery anymore in the game.....

It's not only DF, it's PF too.
I find it hysterical how people get so damn pissed off and blow a blood vessel on this game.
It's just DF should be used as practice tbh, PF is more of a safer route, but a Static is the best bet.
Doing any harder end-game content is like finding a needle in a burning haystack.
Also, people get away with sh!t so much more in DF. I always expect the worse.

[Colt47]

It's not only DF, it's PF too.
I find it hysterical how people get so damn pissed off and blow a blood vessel on this game.
It's just DF should be used as practice tbh, PF is more of a safer route, but a Static is the best bet.
Doing any harder end-game content is like finding a needle in a burning haystack.
Also, people get away with sh!t so much more in DF. I always expect the worse.

Right now, developers are still learning how to make MMORPGs that work for a mass market. Originally these games were incredibly niche so things like DF and PF were never needed. In the last decade we've seen more and more games try to be MMORPGs and a bigger push towards making a game that can fetch a huge audience in order to pay for servers and make it look good to investors. In the end I personally think that trying to fit a magic shoe that will work for everyone is going to fail. Trying to make one just results in a game that is like a summer action movie: Everyone goes and sees it, then forgets about it later on.

Also, often times DF isn't even good for practice. It's just too unpredictable for most high skill encounters to be reliable for learning or clearing content.

[randysquirrel]

it is a sad state of affairs, but it's not surprising.
I've lost count of the number of times I've been in a party, a pug comes in, the bonus comes up and they say "but I know the fight" and then wipe on first mechanic. ie trying to sneak into a farm for a carry. those are the people to blame for the current situation.
OP you say how it is early for these PFs to be appearing, with the content still being new... but by that logic, as it's still new there must be plenty of people who haven't cleared yet. Why don't you run with them?

[Colt47]

Well, reading the responses after my last posting, I think there needs to be some light shined on the entire ordeal. The "Toxicity" people are seeing is a result of problem solving gone horribly wrong (much like what is going on in the economy of balmung for land and airships). The game is trying to teach people that in order to progress, one must master their class and master the encounter for which they are attempting to complete. Raid encounters take this a step further and expect not one, but all players involved to have mastery over their class and their role in the encounter, as well as the ability to coordinate with others.

However, a problem with this is that the system does not encourage us to want to backtrack and teach others. As we progress, we set our bar higher and higher for the community we wish to pair off with and our social advancement isn't as predictable as the learning curve of actual encounters. Some people socially progress to the point of setting up scheduled LS or FC runs, while others get to end game and never really get that far, so they start using the tools they are familiar with such as shout / PF to find people, not realizing this isn't going to get people on their perceived level of play.

Then there are others who can't do LS / FC scheduled runs because of real life even though they ARE socially advanced enough to do so, and they get stuck in the same boat. The reality is that if developers want a game with mass appeal to not be toxic, they have to accept that the social requirements of fights must be low enough that a random group can go in and tackle the content. Setting up hardmode content and rewarding people for completing those challenges is fine, but it's meant for a more focused group of people and will cause all sorts of grief within the mass population they are trying to truly appeal to. The only reason this has never been addressed in MMORPGs to date outside of WoW is because developers tend to not think about the community in these terms from what I've seen. They are only concerned with how to prevent exit conditions (which are actually healthy for a community since players will come back if the game is good).

[seekified]

It is not SE's job to babysit elitist nerds. If PF isn't doing it for you (and I will agree the experience in PF is pretty damn sad at times) then a supportive FC with a decent amount of skilled and friendly players is the way to go. These do exist, I promise.