DRK + War

[TouchandFeel]

PLD's RoH combo decreases STR which reduces physical damage and it too stacks with SE and can easily maintain a 100% uptime. In many if not most fights, the majority of damage is physical so the RoH debuff plus the SE debuff is also nothing to scoff at.

What Reprisal really should function like is a weaker defensive CD that has the extra benefit of raid/party support since it affects damage done and therefore boosts the defense of the entire group. For that to happen so that it can be reliably and strategically used it needs to have the parry stipulation removed from it.

[MythToken]

PLD's RoH combo decreases STR which reduces physical damage and it too stacks with SE and can easily maintain a 100% uptime. In many if not most fights, the majority of damage is physical so the RoH debuff plus the SE debuff is also nothing to scoff at.

What Reprisal really should function like is a weaker defensive CD that has the extra benefit of raid/party support since it affects damage done and therefore boosts the defense of the entire group. For that to happen so that it can be reliably and strategically used it needs to have the parry stipulation removed from it.

Str down is FAR less damage mitigation than 10% all damage reduced. And on top of that the DRK is bringing 10% int down. So really that's a wash.

Bringing a DRK with a WAR specifically to abuse the 20% reduced damage is something that should be explored as a good reason to bring a DRK.

[TouchandFeel]

Str down is FAR less damage mitigation than 10% all damage reduced. And on top of that the DRK is bringing 10% int down. So really that's a wash.

Bringing a DRK with a WAR specifically to abuse the 20% reduced damage is something that should be explored as a good reason to bring a DRK.

Yes, a flat % damage reduction is better than a % strength reduction which will only affect physical damage. However you are glossing over a point I made in the quoted post as well as something that needs to be considered if comparing the two. RoH can be easily maintained 100% of the time while Reprisal at best could be maintained 67% of the time with a 20 second duration and 30 second cooldown and that is assuming that you are consistently getting parry to proc as the cooldown is expiring which is not necessarily going to happen.

Point being, Reprisal is not way better than RoH both functionally and due to its unreliable nature and that is where the issue that many people have with that ability, that it is unreliable.

[Giantbane]

Str down is FAR less damage mitigation than 10% all damage reduced. And on top of that the DRK is bringing 10% int down. So really that's a wash.

I don't know about *FAR* less damage mitigation. For instance, lets take WAR's berserk. This raises attack power (not all damage) by 50%. In practice, this tends to equate to around a 40% damage increase. So it's safe to assume attack power (STR) will account for something like 80% of the outgoing damage (very roughly). By that assumption, you can probably guesstimate ROH's effect at around 8%.

So 8% physical reduction all the time vs. 10% all reduction at MOST 67% of the time (good luck with that), whose availability can be influenced (dark dance) but is ultimately not 100% reliable to be up when you want it. I'd personally go with RoH when you're worried about physical attacks.

Reprisal can be a good choice vs. bosses you can parry when you're worried about raid wide magical attacks, as it stacks with SP and delerium/DK. Course it also depends on the boss attacking fast enough so it's likely that it will proc, and that you can anticipate the attack well enough that you can ensure reprisal is up in time. But that's really the only way that it outshines RoH.

[Zyph]

PLD's RoH combo decreases STR which reduces physical damage and it too stacks with SE and can easily maintain a 100% uptime. In many if not most fights, the majority of damage is physical so the RoH debuff plus the SE debuff is also nothing to scoff at.

What Reprisal really should function like is a weaker defensive CD that has the extra benefit of raid/party support since it affects damage done and therefore boosts the defense of the entire group. For that to happen so that it can be reliably and strategically used it needs to have the parry stipulation removed from it.

Reprisal should be a Shield Swipe clone but oGCD like it is currently and with just the enmity and not the pacification.

Dark Dance should be a parry version of Sheltron.

Delirium should be Dark Arts-able to do STR down instead of INT down.

But yeah Rage of Halone + Storm's Eye is 100% more reliable than Reprisal + Storm's Eye in it's present state.

[Kaedan94]

PLD's RoH combo decreases STR which reduces physical damage and it too stacks with SE and can easily maintain a 100% uptime. In many if not most fights, the majority of damage is physical so the RoH debuff plus the SE debuff is also nothing to scoff at.

What Reprisal really should function like is a weaker defensive CD that has the extra benefit of raid/party support since it affects damage done and therefore boosts the defense of the entire group. For that to happen so that it can be reliably and strategically used it needs to have the parry stipulation removed from it.

-10% STR is nowhere NEAR as potent as -10% Damage. I mean, they aren't even in the same galaxy as far as effectiveness. -10% damage is far, far more effective.

[theamato]

-10% STR is nowhere NEAR as potent as -10% Damage. I mean, they aren't even in the same galaxy as far as effectiveness. -10% damage is far, far more effective.

if you actually cared to research this, a quick test on just about any Physical attacking mob can show you that -10% Strength is roughly 8% physical damage reduction. so that's 8% reduction on all Physical attacks that is available 100% of the fight. Reprisal has no such uptime.

so, no. Reprisal is not "far more effective" than Halone's debuff on Physical attacks.

[Kaedan94]

if you actually cared to research this, a quick test on just about any Physical attacking mob can show you that -10% Strength is roughly 8% physical damage reduction. so that's 8% reduction on all Physical attacks that is available 100% of the fight. Reprisal has no such uptime.

so, no. Reprisal is not "far more effective" than Halone's debuff on Physical attacks.

I'd like to see a link to how those calculations are done. Because increasing your character's STR by 10% does not increase damage by 8%. So unless monsters use a different system...

Furthermore, even if that's true, that's only physical damage it's reducing, not magic. Reprisal does both.

[theamato]

I'd like to see a link to how those calculations are done. Because increasing your character's STR by 10% does not increase damage by 8%. So unless monsters use a different system...

Furthermore, even if that's true, that's only physical damage it's reducing, not magic. Reprisal does both.

uhh, you go up to a physical attacking mob, turn your back (so no Parry or Block), and let it hit you with AAs.

then you go up to the same mob, apply Halone, and let it hit you with AAs. with your back turned.

voila, results. repeat until you have a comfortable sample size.

as for Reprisal, it has far less uptime than Halone (67% if you Parry at the first possible downtime moment). it's good but it cannot be relied on like 100% mitigation.

[Sokerimuro]

What no one seems to bring up here, and is of utmost importance in a discussion such as this, is the Golden Rule of tanking. Repeat after me:
Spikes kill tanks!
Nothing else. Tanks do not die to autoattacks or steady boss damage. Unless the boss has powerful repeating physical cleave or exclusively physical tank busters RoH str debuff does not compete on the comparison.
It all boils down to what kind of damage the predictable spikes deal/what is the raid damage made up (in most cases this is magical)/does your setup have a MNK. I am MT of our static, and bringing up my DRK to use both PLD and DRK maintank whichever fits better the encounter at hand. Also our static does not sport a MNK.
Dark Knight definitely has the tools and the potential is there.