SMN Theorycraft and comparison to Blm

[Alberel]

Battle Litany provides more for SMN than for BLM.

Care to explain that one? If anything a SMN stands to gain less from Battle Litany due to it not affecting any previously cast DOTs so we would have to recast everything ahead of our normal timings just to get any use out of it. Since BLMs primarily deal flat direct damage they benefit massively from a flat crit chance increase.

[HaroldSaxon]

Care to explain that one? If anything a SMN stands to gain less from Battle Litany due to it not affecting any previously cast DOTs so we would have to recast everything ahead of our normal timings just to get any use out of it. Since BLMs primarily deal flat direct damage they benefit massively from a flat crit chance increase.

SMN's have more chances to crit due to having more "attacks" going out per second and can refresh towards the end and still get the benefits. Each DoT can crit each time it ticks, so recast your DoT's when it comes up and towards the end of the buff. Plus SMN's have always scaled better from crit than BLM and its likely this will continue.

BLM's could well be in Ice Phase/Doing a refresh of Enochian or have Enochian fall off - although at the same point, SMN may not have Tri-disaster or deathflare.

[pandabearcat]

More ticks...has nothing to do with contribution from crit...

[HaroldSaxon]

My point was that SMN gets better usage out of it because of the way DoT's work as SMN can recast towards the end of Battle Litany and gain a longer usage of the buff if you recast them towards the end, plus Garuda’s Contagion - and that they tend to itemize crit anyway.

If i'm wrong in the way that it works, i'd love to see some math/theorycrafting proving me wrong as i'm at work right now and I can't exactly do some serious testing.

[SovereignAegis]

I disagree with the fact summoners get more out of that broken dragoon buff. Why? Because you're throwing miasma bio miasma 2 onto target and that is still only 35, 35 and 40 potency DoT effects.

Whereas a BLM can cast fire fire fire in the same time and do like 170 170 170 potency.

Its different ways of delivering the same crap. And one BLM crit in that litany buff is the same as numerous summoner crits.

[HaroldSaxon]

I disagree with the fact summoners get more out of that broken dragoon buff. Why? Because you're throwing miasma bio miasma 2 onto target and that is still only 35, 35 and 40 potency DoT effects.

Whereas a BLM can cast fire fire fire in the same time and do like 170 170 170 potency.

Its different ways of delivering the same crap. And one BLM crit in that litany buff is the same as numerous summoner crits.

Read the post - SMN can recast towards the end of battle liteny and get a longer duration out of it - as well as with Contagion. But then again, after your original post in this thread, I wouldn't expect you to be objective.

[SovereignAegis]

Damn I can't edit it on my phone.

Okay... So that sucks. went over character limit. I will delete that post above later.

Summary of what I wrote:
-BLM need QoL buffs. No where near bad as MCH or BRD
objective does not mean I say everything you want to hear.

[Koyuki38]

So, this a contest of
'who is the victim because his mage is not as powerfull as his mate's mage who gets a buff with 3.0'
?

[pandabearcat]

My point was that SMN gets better usage out of it because of the way DoT's work as SMN can recast towards the end of Battle Litany and gain a longer usage of the buff if you recast them towards the end, plus Garuda’s Contagion - and that they tend to itemize crit anyway.

If i'm wrong in the way that it works, i'd love to see some math/theorycrafting proving me wrong as i'm at work right now and I can't exactly do some serious testing.

If we assume both BLM and SMN do roughly the same amount of dps, it does not really make sense to think SMN will gain more from it.

DoTs are not some magical thing that somehow gets "drastically" better by snapshotting. DoTs are merely high damage nukes - that can be thought of as having a cooldown the length of their duration. I hope you can understand this.

With that out of the way, merely extending or having buffed our DoTs isn't some big deal. DoTs are roughly 30-40% of a SMN's damage. They do a total potency as "nukes" of 350, 290, and 240.

On the other hand a BLM's Fire I does 270 potency, Fire III does 432 potency. So we consider these nukes as well.

So why would they do the same damage? It depends on how lucky you are with timing of the buff.

If the BLM is in Blizz phase during that, or doesn't have Ley Lines or Enochian, or has to move, he is going to do less dps than the SMN. Or if unlucky streak of Fire III procs.
If the SMN is not ready to 3-D or Dreadwyrm during that, he is going to do less dps than the BLM.

So really while the idea of the buff being good is valid, both Harold and Sovereign have incorrect reasons as to why it's better for one class or the other.

What it boils down to is, do your cooldowns line up. Having a DoT and having a nuke based class is irrelevant to this.

[HaroldSaxon]

If we assume both BLM and SMN do roughly the same amount of dps, it does not really make sense to think SMN will gain more from it.

DoTs are not some magical thing that somehow gets "drastically" better by snapshotting. DoTs are merely high damage nukes - that can be thought of as having a cooldown the length of their duration. I hope you can understand this.

With that out of the way, merely extending or having buffed our DoTs isn't some big deal. DoTs are roughly 30-40% of a SMN's damage. They do a total potency as "nukes" of 350, 290, and 240.

On the other hand a BLM's Fire I does 270 potency, Fire III does 432 potency. So we consider these nukes as well.

So why would they do the same damage? It depends on how lucky you are with timing of the buff.

If the BLM is in Blizz phase during that, or doesn't have Ley Lines or Enochian, or has to move, he is going to do less dps than the SMN. Or if unlucky streak of Fire III procs.
If the SMN is not ready to 3-D or Dreadwyrm during that, he is going to do less dps than the BLM.

So really while the idea of the buff being good is valid, both Harold and Sovereign have incorrect reasons as to why it's better for one class or the other.

What it boils down to is, do your cooldowns line up. Having a DoT and having a nuke based class is irrelevant to this.

I'm unable to right now, but surely you could just use Miasma 2, then Tri-disaster as close to the end of Battle Litany as you can and then Contagion to get your DoT's refreshed with the buff, lasting longer?

Wouldn't that add 1450 potency onto SMN that is affected by the buff? (although you would lose potency from the original casts due to clipping).

And surely it is better on a class that has more Critical Hit Rate due to having higher critical damage?