SMN Theorycraft and comparison to Blm

[pandabearcat]

I have yet to see any evidence that CHR significantly impacts critical damage. Then again, you have no reason to believe that BLM will not get more crit/less crit than SMN. Furthermore, pretty much all stat weights are like, <1% difference, so it is not significant. A SMN may have 1% more crit than a BLM.

Secondly, yes you could tri-d at the end.

You could also deathflare at the end. Similarly, a BLM can fire 4 or whatever at the end. Both classes have burst windows, etc. I am not saying that you are incorrect, merely that DoTs are impacted just as much as anything else, no more, from buffs.

And yes, Tri-D if inopportune will cut into its effectiveness.

Saving contagion if it did not line up with your other CDs (like dreadwyrm) also means a possible dps loss if you end up using contagion fewer times during the fight. Also using garuda in general has not been shown to be an actual dps gain. I would posit that using garuda on any fight except one where ifrit will simply die (pretty much none, if you micro him) is a loss.

Contagion, again, can be thought of as simply a nuke, if you use it while dots are buffed, its like you cast the nuke during the buff.

Again I should also state that 15% crit is a really, really minor buff on top of everything else. It isn't worth saving everything for, though it does nicely sync up with raging.

[Malevicton]

I have yet to see any evidence that CHR significantly impacts critical damage.

It was in the 3.0 patch notes.

[pandabearcat]

I have yet to see any evidence that CHR significantly impacts critical damage.

Our stats are simply too low atm to consider this as a quadratic scaling.

[HaroldSaxon]

I have yet to see any evidence that CHR significantly impacts critical damage. Then again, you have no reason to believe that BLM will not get more crit/less crit than SMN. Furthermore, pretty much all stat weights are like, <1% difference, so it is not significant. A SMN may have 1% more crit than a BLM.

Secondly, yes you could tri-d at the end.

You could also deathflare at the end. Similarly, a BLM can fire 4 or whatever at the end. Both classes have burst windows, etc. I am not saying that you are incorrect, merely that DoTs are impacted just as much as anything else, no more, from buffs.

And yes, Tri-D if inopportune will cut into its effectiveness.

Saving contagion if it did not line up with your other CDs (like dreadwyrm) also means a possible dps loss if you end up using contagion fewer times during the fight. Also using garuda in general has not been shown to be an actual dps gain. I would posit that using garuda on any fight except one where ifrit will simply die (pretty much none, if you micro him) is a loss.

Contagion, again, can be thought of as simply a nuke, if you use it while dots are buffed, its like you cast the nuke during the buff.

Again I should also state that 15% crit is a really, really minor buff on top of everything else. It isn't worth saving everything for, though it does nicely sync up with raging.

Some good points I agree, although Crit had worse scaling than Det and Spellspeed previously for BLM, whereas Crit and Det were the go to for SMN. It remains to be seen if 2.x trends will be replicated in 3.x, but there are certainly things that point towards it (e.g. 3 second casts are affected more by spellspeed than 2.5 seconds, but could well be counteracted by lack of Fey Glow and the "attack speed" mechanics).

I also didn't say you should save everything for the cooldown, I was merely giving a scenario where Summoners can get an added duration of the skill and that Summoners have had better Crit scaling than BLM in the past.

[Meleoffs]

I'm unable to right now, but surely you could just use Miasma 2, then Tri-disaster as close to the end of Battle Litany as you can and then Contagion to get your DoT's refreshed with the buff, lasting longer?

Wouldn't that add 1450 potency onto SMN that is affected by the buff? (although you would lose potency from the original casts due to clipping).

And surely it is better on a class that has more Critical Hit Rate due to having higher critical damage?

You should know blm typically stacked crit in arr after SS... Also, the spread of damage isn't nearly as large as you would think, the sim thread suggests its about .02 more damage average per crit and less than 1.5 if you don't have any crit in the gear we have now. Crit had worse scaling and if you got the same amount of det as you would crit from a slot you went det, but that doesn't change the fact that you went for crit because in spite of the scaling difference you got 70%~ more crit per piece slightly out weighing det. A good example of this being the IW hat + gloves vs Dread hat + gloves, you got 28 det vs 44 crit

[HaroldSaxon]

You should know blm typically stacked crit in arr after SS... Also, the spread of damage isn't nearly as large as you would think, the sim thread suggests its about .02 more damage average per crit and less than 1.5 if you don't have any crit in the gear we have now.

Of course I know that. But that was only because you got less det on gear. Now, while that is still the case, the difference is FAR less (E.g. i180 Caster - Headpiece main stat is +42 Crit +28 Det, the Hands are +40 det +30 Spellspeed). When it came to custom relics you melded Spellspeed/Det because point for point, Det was better than crit.

[Meleoffs]

Of course I know that. But that was only because you got less det on gear. Now, while that is still the case, the difference is FAR less (E.g. i180 Caster - Headpiece main stat is +42 Crit +28 Det, the Hands are +40 det +30 Spellspeed). When it came to custom relics you melded Spellspeed/Det because point for point, Det was better than crit.

I mean we'd have to wait and see what Alex and eso gear gives us to actually have an idea of how itemization is going to play out because as far as I'm concerned the itemization on this gear is absolute shit.

[Sleigh]

I mean we'd have to wait and see what Alex and eso gear gives us to actually have an idea of how itemization is going to play out because as far as I'm concerned the itemization on this gear is absolute shit.

The prevailing theory is SE is giving us absolute shit sub-stats, in effectiveness and which ones are on gear, so as we gear up we can feel stronger and more complete.

[Meleoffs]

The prevailing theory is SE is giving us absolute shit sub-stats, in effectiveness and which ones are on gear, so as we gear up we can feel stronger and more complete.

I kind of figured as much, I mean they kind of did the same with DL if I recall. Though no one really understood that at the time.

[HaroldSaxon]

I mean we'd have to wait and see what Alex and eso gear gives us to actually have an idea of how itemization is going to play out because as far as I'm concerned the itemization on this gear is absolute shit.

Good point and I agree, although itemization in this game hasn't really been that varied which is a shame.