Musings on Mods

[Hyunckel]

I think a problem with Bismarck Ex, especially right now, is its minimal ilvl requirement. You can go in there with ilvl 142 which is total nonsense. Even Neverreap and Fractal require 145.

Well it can AND has been cleared at ilv150 (and ravana 160) lol

It's just that some people plainly suck at rotations, keeping up buffs, positionning etc. Some jobs also underperform in regard to others.

[KisaiTenshi]

if they didn't want people to be annoyed about people putting forth poor DPS, they shouldn't have put such extremely strict DPS checks into heavensward.

(hello Bismarck EX)


any single argument anyone might have about "oh but people will use it to harass" is outweighed by the fact that you absolutely need to put forth a certain amount of DPS to clear specific heavensward fights, and being unable to tell who is dead weight on your team is a severe handicap as a result.

not that i condone harassment of course, but it's extremely stupid that the current extreme primal fights have such strict DPS checks, with absolutely no way ingame to tell who's lagging behind if you cannot pass said checks .

It's a BS response to tell people "you're dead weight according to my unauthorized mod that tells me you suck"

SE clearly has the ability to tell the player/party who is purposely dragging down the party, it exists in the PvP content.

What needs to happen is that the rewards need to scale by participation. So you can't "carry" dead weight, or better yet "can't sell clears"

A dungeon should not be clearable with one person being dead weight. Regardless of the gear creep.

But to the OP...

Mods are extremely abused in MMO's, especially mods that give the player access to content they should never ever have. I'd rather the status quo stay, and SE hand out a better carrot for preventing bad behavior and breaking existing DPS mods than opening add-on's up and someone figuring out how to automate the fight due to too much information being present in the client.

[Ayuhra]

I have a mixed feeling about addons.

WoW is almost unplayable at advanced levels when you go in naked. Deadly Boss Mods and damage meters are a must as are mods that change the UI. Raiding Guilds used to ask for screenshots of your UI to be sure you were modded. It's a bit silly and...I think DBM has ruined my ability to play this game. How do I move out of AoEs without a sound blaring in my ear? I'm having to teach myself to rely on visual queues only after a long time of heavy reliance on audio ones. Honestly a part of me would love to have a DBM and a timer addon to help me manage BLM a little better but I shouldn't NEED such things to play. If they became available I'd need them because you are just crippling yourself without such things.

Damage Meters are.... How to discuss damage meters. Any DPS would love to have a live parse on their screen telling them how they are doing. It helps you tighten rotations when you know exactly what you're contributing to a fight. The problem is meters change the environment of playing a DPS especially in a PUG. Whereas before you were a united front against a boss now you are engaged in a competition with everyone around you to not get kicked from the group. This attitude has actually destroyed the self esteem of some WoW players. I know some players who came here, tried their best, and kicked themselves if they felt they were underperforming (heck I do this). One person I know tried healing a Trial for the first time and after seven wipes she was in tears and had to leave even though the rest of the group was trying to encourage her to try again. It's hard to feel good about anything when MMO addons have taught you to see yourself as a number and nothing else. You know how people in FFXIV will usually attempt something a few times before voting disband? In WoW people usually only have one attempt in them. If the numbers don't look fantastic they will leave, to heck with people who've never done the content before (they're usually vote kicked anyway)

If SE allows addon support they will have to be careful in its implementation. I worry addons could change some things about the community. They are great tools but tools are all they ever should be.

That was probably a rambling post, sorry, never had my coffee today.

[NozomiKei]

This attitude has actually destroyed the self esteem of some WoW players. [....] One person I know tried healing a Trial for the first time and after seven wipes she was in tears and had to leave even though the rest of the group was trying to encourage her to try again. It's hard to feel good about anything when MMO addons have taught you to see yourself as a number and nothing else.

This game... DPS are often treated as disposable, replaceable, less valued than tanks and healers and it really wears on you. Black mage is the only battle class I've leveled to 50 and I really enjoy playing it, but I often consider leveling a tank or healer so I can be 'useful'. I was actually referred to as a leech during a hunt when they first came out by a jerk of a healer just because I was a dps. Stupid me I apologized and explained it was my only class.

Before I was first told my numbers I generally assumed I wasn't the best but I always tried to be better so I wasn't super bothered. Then I was informed my numbers sucked so I went on journeys like in some 90s movie to speak with the great black mages of the server and figure out in depth what I might be doing wrong. Updated rotations for my increased stats, utilization of less popular actions like aetherial manipulation, really practicing my slide casting for dodging. Informed my numbers are still bad, bottom dps in the group, even beneath some of the heavy dps tanks. I cried. I just felt like quitting the game entirely at that point but I love it (and I've spent a lot of money on it) so I stayed.

In the end my tentatively bad self esteem towards my playing solidified into a crippling fear of playing with certain people (I pugged into a t13 party with like 6 of them and literally started trembling) and constantly apologizing for being bad when I go into a fight I'm newish to. I've been reduced to tears multiple times because of the shame I feel over my apparent inability to play the job I love well. It's even worse now that I'm trying to limp through this convoluted new black mage rotation for boss battles chock full of aoes. It's gotten to the point that I can't believe any compliments on my playing because I'm sure they're only saying them because they can't see the numbers.

Sorry for my stupid post; I'm tired and this new rotation makes me want to apologize for existing every time I pug one of the new fights. Just ignore me.

[hobostew]

I really hate posts that grossly exaggerate the "harassment" caused by parsers. I played WoW for years and can count in one hand the times a meter maid caused drama and they are always promptly told to stop by everyone else. People seem to only remember the few times they run into jerks but disregard all the hundreds of other times were nothing at all happened. I'll also add that parsers aren't required by most raid groups. In fact, there are very few addons that groups usually require (can only think of DBM but even that isn't always required).

[Nikita]

Besides the fact that this topic has already been beaten to death, I would just like to point out that DPS meters are already a thing in FFXIV. They are against the ToS however. Just 2 days ago I was being complimented on how I was outdamaging their MNK in a duty finder party.

DPS meters are here to stay. Not going anywhere, sorry. That's just a fact of the genre. People can already parse you and if you're in a group with a few jerks playing together they can see on their meter that you're low they can kick you. Now, if they're smart they won't flat out tell you that it was your damage, but the fact remains the same.

I like DPS meters. I would like to glance down and be able to tell my friend to stop paying so much attention to Netflix because he's slowing us down.

I hope they allow them when they eventually introduce addon support.

[Risvertasashi]

Now, if they're smart they won't flat out tell you that it was your damage, but the fact remains the same.

Pretty much. If it's a raid and you're on voice, you'll get told there and told to step it up or be replaced. In the DF, it's just a silent kick for no reason apparent if you don't have your numbers.

[Nadirah]

Being legally blind I full well enjoyed the audio cues DBM gave me.

[hobostew]

I don't even understand how what you said relates to my post but I'll try to clarify in case there was some misunderstanding. Harassment by people who use parsers or any other addons/mods for that matter is hugely exaggerated. I'd argue harassment in general doesn't happen very often at all it's just that you simply remember those few times that you were harassed more than the times when you weren't.

I'd also like to say that the WoW community is actually very much the same as this community as much as some of you would like to believe otherwise. This is because all these communities are made of people and people will behave like people no matter where you go. There are always a few jerks but most people just want to get things done without any drama.

[Ayuhra]

Snip

This is how I feel too sometimes. Luckily I fell into the arms of an FC with pretty decent players who have been willing to let me learn the game and my class. I suspect I am still bad at Black Maging. I can keep our rotation up on a target dummy but any time I have to target switch or move I flail a bit. I aetherial manipulate, offensively convert, use my shields where needed to spare the healer grief but my raw damage output I can tell still needs some tightening. Frankly, I don't think the new rotation is very fun but with some QoL tweaks it could be. It's frustrating to lose a rotation for 30 seconds due to movement or because a faster class finished off a mob before you could hit it (No my Blizz IV didn't land, I needed that!)

snip.

I wouldn't say it's exaggerating to say mods like damage meters can cause a cultural shift that makes DPS feel even worse. It does, absolutely. It's giving the jerks we have now a legitimate megaphone with which they can be jerks. I'm not saying it would ruin the game. I played WoW for eight years sometimes casually sometimes as a progression raider and I certainly would not have done that if I felt like I was going to watch someone punch my mom for hours each time I logged in. And I used damage meters to measure my own performance and found them a valuable tool. I like the idea of them, I'm just always a bit unsure about introducing them to a new game.