Astrologian Healing

[Lorielle]

So, I finally decided to take Astrologian into some end game stuff to test it myself. I enjoy the concept of Astrologian behind the cards. I really do, but after a slightly bad experience with A4 and a smoother run, I was a little concerned about Astrologian in general. Their direct heals and their ways of refreshing MP is certainly troublesome in long fights that do a lot of damage.

I understand that the Astrologian will really be a supportive role with supporting buffs and dependent on their co-healer...But is this more of a detriment than a benefit?

The purpose of the thread is mostly to see what people think themselves. o:

[Thela]

Yeah I'm less than impressed myself and are currently levelling my WHM as well. They did promise us some adjustments so we shall see which they come up with, but for now they are just way to weak.

[Krixus]

I remember plenty stressful fights on whm back in 2.0 because players would ignore mechanics. While I have noticed a slight bit more difficulty, I wouldnt say its more a detriment. Also keep in mind alot of healers out there arnt very good, so covering for someones weak play makes it seem alot worse. Last 3 groups I did on Bis ex the sch had much lower Hps than I as astro and yes I was including his eos hps. (and before people say he was dpsing and letting the other heal cover, I had higher dps also)

[Rewind]

The purpose of the thread is mostly to see what people think themselves. o:

With a good group, decent co-healer AST can easily sustain a group.

AST has to be less concerned with topping people straight away to maximum HP and more concerned with topping people to a safe HP level. This requires players not to do stupid things and maybe absorb orbs when they are only at 25% HP and have no defensive CDs up (mana ward/perfect dodge/tank cds etc)

3.0 WHM/SCH probably feel stronger because they have more oh-shit abilities to heal through stupid, and their SHPS (Stupid heals per second) will be higher than AST. In my opinion, 3.0 AST is no different to 2.0 WHM - little time to DPS, difficulties managing mana and could really only afford one res.

Over time, the trend of stupid will decrease, as people become more familiar with their classes and AST will seem less restrictive/unattractive.

That being said - I still push for changes to Nocturnal stance and collective unconscious These are pretty weak and situational atm.

[Lorielle]

Hmm.. Healing to safe levels is a thing, but it's the most optimal thing(depending on the fight). When constant big AoE damage is happening, it's really difficult to just 'leave' someone at a safe HP level because a number of things can happen(Taking a Ball then getting hit by Perpetual Ray is my favorite one). I understand that your Co-Healer will be there as well to finish the job in keeping people up, but that's more on paper than practice.

What I feel like essentially is that AST is more designed for fights that are not so AoE heavy. The Vault final boss is a good indicator for that. While I can clear that just fine, it's still stressful because of how much damage goes out to the tank and everyone else, even if they're doing mechanics properly.

[SDaemon]

Snip

I've farmed A4 as an AST together with a WHM in my static and we did it very very very easily with a PF group. When we both initially tried it through DF, both of us struggled because the DPS wanted to play a game of "Who can commit suicide on these orbs the fastest!" in which both of us were blowing mp like mad trying to get them up and the tanks kept alive. By the time the last phase rolled around we didn't have the mp to survive Nisi.

Moral of the story? Every group is different, but an AST can easily heal A4 as long as the group isn't trying to kill themselves, in which case even a WHM will struggle.

Does AST need some work and love? Sure, totally. But Alex NM is easily healed as a AST in appropriate gear w/ a group that isn't failing at mechanics.

[Rewind]

The Vault final boss is a good indicator for that. While I can clear that just fine, it's still stressful because of how much damage goes out to the tank and everyone else, even if they're doing mechanics properly.

The vault final boss isn't that difficult to heal. In that fight you should have aspected helios rolling constantly and only top people with helios if you have aspected helios already running (and the regen tick is greater than 8 seconds). Only opportunity someone has to die is if they don't break their chains fast enough (They decide to stand there and continue dps the boss) or they incorrectly dodge the knights/aoe fire more than once.

Don't forget to use synastry, on a dps while your topping up another dps or the tank. Aspected benefic is also good to get someone out of very low HP.

[Cynfael]

The issue with AST isn't that it's bad; it can do the job fine. It's that AST lacks flexibility and front-loaded healing compared to the other two Jobs, and it generally takes noticeably more buttons and more MP to accomplish what the other healers can do with less work.

AST is actually a very fun healer class with a great concept, so I'm hopeful that the upcoming tweaks will bring it better in line with WHM and SCH. Ideally I'd like to see it retain its higher skill floor for effective healing, but with a bit more reward for the effort as well as a truly competitive card system that makes up for its slightly-less-than-OP healing powers.

The vault final boss isn't that difficult to heal. In that fight you should have aspected helios rolling constantly and only top people with helios if you have aspected helios already running (and the regen tick is greater than 8 seconds). Only opportunity someone has to die is if they don't break their chains fast enough (They decide to stand there and continue dps the boss) or they incorrectly dodge the knights/aoe fire more than once.

Don't forget to use synastry, on a dps while your topping up another dps or the tank. Aspected benefic is also good to get someone out of very low HP.

Yes, AST does Vault just fine. It's a really fun dungeon for healers, and yes, it is more stressful if people fail at mechanics. On the other hand, if players handle mechanics correctly at the last boss, it's quite easy for any healer to take care of.

[Lorielle]

The vault final boss isn't that difficult to heal.

Yes, I know. But that's not the point I was getting at. It's in general what AST is weak against. The thing it's easier to manage here because it's a 4 man(though the gear at the time is definitely a factor, but this isn't any different from end game content in that concept).

Snip!

WHM/AST is a viable combo and far less stressful than SCH/AST because you can stack your HoT's at any given time also with WHM being a easy AoE healer. Not to say SCH is bad at healing or anything, but it's not as easy. But keep in mind, that you are still relying on WHM to do the big healing rather than being on 'even footing' where WHM and SCH are more or less.

How I see it is there's two different kinds of 'Dependent'. WHM and SCH depend on each other to do the same thing. AST 'depends' on the Co-Healer to make up for what they are not as capable of doing.

Yes, I know AST is capable of doing the content. But the issue I am seeing is it's not on the 'even' footing as the two. Or at least, I feel that way.

[Rewind]

How I see it is there's two different kinds of 'Dependent'. WHM and AST depend on each other to do the same thing. AST 'depends' on the Co-Healer to make up for what they are not as capable of doing.

I don't know if dependent is the right word - reminds me of a child dependent on an adult rather than two individuals working as a team/couple? At same time AST could focus on tank healing whilst WHM is left to raid etc

Each team dynamic is different - I don't think AST is incapable healing through raid damage, rather the approach is different - topping HP on raid damage in one quick heal versus using aspected helios and leave the raid to reach maximum HP in 5-7 seconds after that heal went off. To heal through sustainted damage (tumults on titan are a good example) they would have to possibly use aspected helios, consider using collective unconscious if people are stacked or use a helios. Might be a bit different from WHM but still achieves the same results?