memorial service for MCH

[Duelle]

MACHINIST plays like another execution of BARD, aligning buffs with *one* burst combo...And waiting. It requires more effort to be mediocre than the other classes to be amazing. (I don't think that is an exaggeration.)

Why the need for it to be proc based, at all? Is it really implausible to have SPLIT SHOT > SLUG SHOT > CLEAN SHOT be a regular combo?

My guess is that when they started designing MCH, they decided one of their rules for physical ranged DPS is that it had to be like BRD in a way. Serving a similar purpose while having the same/similar utility (meaning instead of competing for DPS slots with BLM, SMN, DRG, NIN and MNK, MCH is only competing with BRD). Of course, this also trickles into it having similar gameplay; a problem made worse by using the same mechanics in the post-50 game for both jobs.

Back in ARR's beta they talked about the fact that combos as known by melee don't really fit a ranged class like archer/BRD, which is why they went with procs. I originally figured that for the sake of making the jobs different gameplay-wise, they'd design MCH with weaker attacks that are instant and heavier attacks with cast times, and perhaps interactions between shots (basically the idea behind Wildfire but expanded). Hence why I'm of the belief Gauss Barrel and Wanderer's Minuet shouldn't exist, yet they do because this is the gimmick through which you see changes in gameplay (I'm guessing to match up to the new systems added for MNK, DRG and SMN, though those systems added to gameplay rather than take away).

[Caitlyn]

When designing the MCH, the developer must goes like:

"Hey, I like that BLM swift-cast and proc-stuff. Lets add it to the Machinist"
"Hey, I like that Dragonkick and Combo-stuff from the MNK. Lets add it to the Machinist"
"Hey, I like the Songs and Stuns a BRD can do. Lets add it to the Machinist"
"Hey, I like that Crit-, DoT- and Damage-Buff-Skill from our DRGs. Lets add it to the Machinist"
"Hey, I like that pet from the SMN. Lets add it to the Machinist"
"Hey, I like that Jutsu-stuff from NIN. Nah, that would be to much."

"What about damage?" - "Fuck it, we got a class which got everything from nearly any other DPS-class. Maybe we must nerf it later, because it looks to powerfull right now".


At the moment, I dont see any reasons to take a MCH into a fight, if the group got already a BRD. Nearly every class got their own skill in regenerating TP/MP. No need to have 2 classes which can do.

Its quite pointless to sacrifice one dps-slot for another support-class, which cant even support as good as the BRD already does. On the other hand, the DPS-gap spreads even more. Maybe SE have to add an additional dps-slot for non-BRD/MCH, when a MCH already joined the party.

Ironically, knowing that BRD and MCH do much lower damage than any other dps classes, they implemented 2 big DPS-checks called "'Bismarck" and "Ravana".


Nevertheless. I thought, the MCH will be a challenging class to supplement other DPS classes. But for now, its just a weak BRD-clone with guns and procs. In Raid, every MCH will be nothing more than this:

[Humorless]

Still playing it. Still gonna raid with it.

R.I.P. MCH pretenders.

Congrats, you're going to be an *** to your raid team just so you can feel good about yourself for being a "real" MCH.

[Sen_Terrechant]

Congrats, you're going to be an *** to your raid team just so you can feel good about yourself for being a "real" MCH.

Pretty sure hes basically right and everyone is way overreacting.

BRD/MCH damage is NOT nearly as bad as people say it is. (People just suck)

MCH brings a physical damage down debuff, and a higher damage potential for a bit less utility.


Seriously, people really need a healthy dose of L2P

[Ryaz]

Persoanlly, I love MCH. No one in my FC gives me crap about being one and I've had several members compliment me on my ability to play the class properly. Do I believe we need buffs? Of course. Gauss Barrel right now gives us a big negative with cast times for no gain. That's an issue, as is having too much down time between reloads. But other than that, I think the class is fine. Our potencies look low, but are compensated for with increased action damage and our turrets, which make them higher than the tooltip shows. I even tried going back to playing my ninja when all the rumblings started, but found myself having a lot more fun with MCH. So I'm going to stick with it.

I still remember people saying how slow normal Haukke was with a MCH when they first came out. I thought it was me at first, but then chalked it up to gear. Everyone at that time had leveling gear and people weren't synced from their high level stuff. Go in there now with my ilvl of 170 synced down and things are melting even without my turret.

So yes, we need buffs (or tank dps needs nerfs, but I prefer the former) and fixes. But people are making it seem like we're so bad off there's no hope for us, which is going way overboard. All that attitude is doing for us is making more and more people not want to take a MCH based on what's being said instead of what they actually experience for themselves.

[The_Last_Dragoon]

Wait, Machinist? So you guys aren't talking about the new Gambler class?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Congrats, you're going to be an *** to your raid team just so you can feel good about yourself for being a "real" MCH.

Calm down and read a little before firing off. All that means is I'm not going to let everyone else's idea that "MCH can't raid!" dictate whether I try or not. Whether I succeed or fail is going to be purely of my own doing. NOT what others say.

[Shneibel]

Pretty sure hes basically right and everyone is way overreacting.

BRD/MCH damage is NOT nearly as bad as people say it is. (People just suck)

MCH brings a physical damage down debuff, and a higher damage potential for a bit less utility.


Seriously, people really need a healthy dose of L2P

but but, you are not even play MCH yourself (or unlock it, when I check). Everything sound good in skill description & paper, but you gotta try it yourself

[SovereignAegis]

I can't believe some people are saying it doesn't need buffs.

I am playing it at present and CAN IT CLEAR CONTENT? YES. YES IT CAN.

As fast as anything else (ANYTHING ELSE)? NO.
Is the utility it brings worth the damage loss? NO.
Do I even notice when I use Dismantle? NO.
Do I even notice when I overcharge turret (aside from MP/TP regain)? NO.
Do I even get the ability to use silence/stun on bosses? NO.

So we paid for our cake and we didn't even get to freaking eat it.

I am leveling it to 60 finally and it can clear content, but it does so in a totally horrendous way and I literally am playing it to it's maximum potential. I out DPS people, but it's obvious THEY don't know their classes rotation when I do or they are doing that "1-1-1-1-1-1-1" afk-dps spam.

Wait, Machinist? So you guys aren't talking about the new Gambler class?

Final Fantasy: Triple Triad reborn ...

AKA machinist.

[Ryaz]

but but, you are not even play MCH yourself (or unlock it, when I check). Everything sound good in skill description & paper, but you gotta try it yourself

I play MCH. I'm level 60 with 180 weapons and ilvl 171. I agree that people are overreacting and it's hurting the class a lot. Again, we're not where we should be, but a good MCH player also won't be dragging the group down to failure like many people are claiming.