Client Side Mudras

[Altena]

First and foremost, I'm an Aussie who plays on NA servers. My ping is about 250ms with a tunnel service, and 400ms+ without. For the most part I accept any latency I get due to my location and am used to it for anything else mechanic related in this game including end game fights aside from one thing -

Mudras.

Now I am not all that savvy with programming or networking to understand how server side / client side systems work, and whether or not this is even possible however-

Mudras are extremely latency dependent due to the short CD (0.5s). When watching videos of other ninjas playing in NA or even EU, I get rather jealous of how quick their mudras activate due to their ping alone. As a competitive player it puts me (and other english speaking countries that are across the globe) at a rather large handicap.

In addition to this, any ninja (whether you are in Montreal or Australia) that experiences gameplay during highly congested times (or when the server is struggling) can tell you of their experience with mudra rollback, and how infuriating it is when it happens.

I am perfectly fine with the decision to choose a server side structure for everything else in the game currently, however when mudra rollbacks start happening, it just makes ninja a very clunky, not-fun class to play.

You should bunny when you hit the wrong key combination, not when the server decides to reject your input due to packet loss or similar.

[Vyshan]

Everything done client side can be manipulated (edited/hacked).
If Mudras were done client-side, it would be possible to create a program that tells the server "Yeah, I did X combo" at every moment, without having actually done so. This is why very few things are actually done client-side.

[Altena]

Everything done client side can be manipulated (edited/hacked).
If Mudras were done client-side, it would be possible to create a program that tells the server "Yeah, I did X combo" at every moment, without having actually done so. This is why very few things are actually done client-side.

Other games achieve client side actions and don't have these problems. Why is XIV any different?

[Sessurea]

I'd love this too. Ninja sux for Europeans also.

[LineageRazor]

Other games achieve client side actions and don't have these problems. Why is XIV any different?

They do have those problem. For any even modestly popular game that does anything client-side that would be useful to manipulate, people have created software to manipulate that data.

You may not be aware of the problem, but the problem exists.

To be honest, though, when it comes to Mudras, who cares if some hax ninja is using software to pump out perfect Mudras? Mudras are not complex; I'd guess that the great majority of Mudra errors are NOT caused by player error, but by latency. With Mudras client-side, you'd rarely be able to tell a hax ninja from even an only moderately competent player putting in the Mudras manually. Opening up Mudras to third-party software manipulation would be WORTH IT.

[Callinon]

Everything done client side can be manipulated (edited/hacked).
If Mudras were done client-side, it would be possible to create a program that tells the server "Yeah, I did X combo" at every moment, without having actually done so. This is why very few things are actually done client-side.

Yeah but so what?

Since the launch of HW I've had more failed mudra combos for no reason other than latency than in the entire rest of the time I've played NIN (which is since 2.4 introduced the job). And I don't even live in Australia like the OP. I live in the midwestern US.

I can't tell you the number of times the game has simply eaten one of my mudras. Put in the combo for Huton, get the Katon icon. Well... crap... now what? It's a problem that's been magnified by the expansion's launch and it's getting out of hand. For those people living further away from the data center, it's got to be ridiculous by this point.

Letting the client just handle the mudra input by itself and sending the completed ninjutsu solves this problem. It reduces the number of round trips your packets have to do from 4 trips to 1. And you're right, it opens up the possibility for a third party program to manipulate your inputs so you can never fail a ninjutsu again, but who cares? Third party software is already a violation of the TOS, and this isn't a significant advantage being created. It's a silly thing to risk getting banned for when the client-side input would remove the problem for any remotely competent player.

[Altena]

In addition to all of this, I'm not asking for client side ninjutsu execution - simply the selection of which ninjutsu to execute (mudra combo).

Actually exactly what Callinon mentioned (started typing this before reading his post).

I honestly can't remember the last time I failed a mudra due to player error. The last time would be when I randomly hit "Q, E or R" (my mudra keys) while idling or pre-fight waiting for afk'ers (which happens occasionally)..

Only Ninjas have any clue how infuriating it is when the mudra appears to activate (the CD rolls around, the animation displays 3/4 of the way as you're queuing your next mudra) only to find out that the 2nd one didn't actually activate due to random packet loss. Other jobs can "feel fine" and not laggy, but as soon as you switch to NIN which has 0.5sec CD on mudras, the packet loss/latency sticks out like a sore thumb. Mudra fails due to latency/packet loss is absolutely crippling for a competitive NIN. So much so that a fellow Australian that likes NIN opted to avoid re-capping it this patch as it relies so much on latency..

Even IF there was third party software for mudras, I would opt not to use it. To begin with, due to fight mechanics the choice on which ninjutsu to use varies, as well as the timing of certain fights (such as disconnects or invuln timers). I would much rather hit 3 buttons in sequence than find additional keys to bind each ninjutsu.

Finally what is stopping people from writing scripts (aside from the ToS) for mudras anyway? It's not like it would be impossible to write a simple external macro or hotkey that inputs each mudra combination in there for you. (Why you would do this I have no idea).

Again, the "possibility to cheat with mudras" is such a weak excuse to put every ninja who has suffered from any form of latency or packet loss through this pain.

The problem is certainly more evident upon new patches (as the servers always struggle), however it is definitely an on-going problem.

[Vyshan]

It's not going to happen due to cheating. Regardless of whether you think it's a small problem or not, it's not going to happen for that reason.

[Kiara1]

Everything done client side can be manipulated (edited/hacked).
If Mudras were done client-side, it would be possible to create a program that tells the server "Yeah, I did X combo" at every moment, without having actually done so. This is why very few things are actually done client-side.

I actually dont see how this is a problem if the ninjutsu (i think thats what the skill is called) isn't client side.
Its not like you can do anything with mudras outside of ninjutsu anyway so what is the point of hacking it.

Am I missing sometihng?

[IzzyData]

So I've been playing ninja for awhile now and haven't experience any of the issues described in this thread, but I'm curious about a few things.

Can I just click a mudra combination all at once and click ninjitsu and then just wait for the server to do all the ninja animations for each button and then cast the ability? Or is there some delay that I have to wait for? Normally I just do it slowly to avoid it thinking I did it wrong, but I don't actually know if that is necessary or not.