Client Side Mudras

[Altena]

So I've been playing ninja for awhile now and haven't experience any of the issues described in this thread, but I'm curious about a few things.

Can I just click a mudra combination all at once and click ninjitsu and then just wait for the server to do all the ninja animations for each button and then cast the ability? Or is there some delay that I have to wait for? Normally I just do it slowly to avoid it thinking I did it wrong, but I don't actually know if that is necessary or not.

The cooldown on each mudra is 0.5 seconds. Fast enough to do it in a steady "tap, tap, tap" pace, but slow enough that you can't just mash them all at once. I kind of feel like if you have been playing NIN for a while you would know this but I won't cast judgment on that. You should try it though (press them in succession as fast as you can).

Depending how long "a while" is, you may not have experienced the rollback issues yet. Please look forward to it.

[IzzyData]

. I kind of feel like if you have been playing NIN for a while you would know this but I won't cast judgment on that.

Well, I'm level 58. The system just feels really sluggish so it's hard to tell what's intended and what isn't. Like I can click an ability before it is even off cooldown and wait a little bit and it will get used by itself as if there was some ability queue. Or if I click an ability and then immediately click another ability in a combo before the global cooldown is up and then wait it will go off by itself.

I have very low latency, but the system always feels weird to me. Perhaps since I'm so used to how WoW works.

[Altena]

Well, I'm level 58. The system just feels really sluggish so it's hard to tell what's intended and what isn't. Like I can click an ability before it is even off cooldown and wait a little bit and it will get used by itself as if there was some ability queue. Or if I click an ability and then immediately click another ability in a combo before the global cooldown is up and then wait it will go off by itself.

I have very low latency, but the system always feels weird to me. Perhaps since I'm so used to how WoW works.

Well there is actually an ability queue (for that reason), which is honestly a godsend as you only really need to hit a button once (instead of spamming the same key for it to go off the moment your GCD goes off cooldown).

The queue begins at 3/4 of your GCD. So anytime after that you can begin queueing skills.

[IzzyData]

Well there is actually an ability queue (for that reason), which is honestly a godsend as you only really need to hit a button once (instead of spamming the same key for it to go off the moment your GCD goes off cooldown).

The queue begins at 3/4 of your GCD. So anytime after that you can begin queueing skills.

That's some very useful information. I thought the game was just derpy.

[Core1019]

I don't play ninja, but it sounds like a lot of the problems mentioned here apply to lots of things. For example BLM fire 1 AF refresh lagging out fire 4, meaning can only fit 1 in instead of 2.

Tbh there's a LOT of things in this game I wish were client-side, but I don't see it happening, unfortunately.

[Altena]

I don't play ninja, but it sounds like a lot of the problems mentioned here apply to lots of things. For example BLM fire 1 AF refresh lagging out fire 4, meaning can only fit 1 in instead of 2.

Tbh there's a LOT of things in this game I wish were client-side, but I don't see it happening, unfortunately.

That is actually on a whole other issue.

The issue is how they chose to deal with the aesthetics of skills.
The action is calculated (damage, buff, debuff etc) upon connecting with the mob (such as the fireball hitting the monster, or a certain point in the animation such as an explosion). It's hard to use BLM as an example but have you noticed the mob's HP doesn't go down until the fireball or explosion from flare/fire 3 actually goes off?


The most glaring example (which is PLD so I am not sure if you would have experienced this) is when a PLD uses Hallowed Ground, however dies during the animation (ie the buff doesn't get applied until the shield around the PLD is shown in the animation). The cooldown on Hallowed still activates however.


Honestly the main reason that skill rolback is more of a problem for NIN is because mudra CD's are so low that it's glaringly obvious. In addition to that, mudras are the heart of NIN's damage, and failed mudra usage is crippling.

[Dante_V]

I fully support this change. The advantage provided by "cheating" the mudras would be extremely small when compared to the QoL benefit form the thousands of people who can't play the class as intended. Beyond this unfair advantages are already being created as console players don't have easy access to the tools like wtfast that would help reduce the issue. People are literally having to compromise their techniques in order to deal with this issue. Beyond that, outside of maybe the first month of learning the class, every single Mudra fail I've had has been because of latency in executing the first input leading to the second input being completely disregarded. At worst the Mudra fails and at best I have to stop and check if the second input goes thru.

It's simply undeniable that the class is not functioning as intended and this is to such a degree that every ninja guide written has a special part on it specifically dedicated to working around this issue using fuma based on latency. The majority of players not on VPN or near a data center are having this issue. It needs to be addressed.

At best case scenario what would a cheater be able to do? A one button press to fit a three step Mudra into a single GCD? At a .5 second delay a three step Mudra should already be able to be fit in a GCD and I would gladly let some derp ninja cheat the system if it allowed me to play the class as it was intended to be played.

[CoolMithra]

As a fellow Ninja player, i totally understand the OP's frustration with Mudra's. I also wish something could be done about the Mudra lag, however, if they were to make Mudra activation client side, besides hacking(which i honestly do not see the point of), another issue would need to be addressed.

Other players would not be able to see the casting animations/icons for each Mudra being cast by the Ninja because this data would not be sent to the server anymore. Only the client side Mudra sequence would be sent to the server once the player casts Ninjutsu. One of the reasons why I like ninja is because of the Mudra cast animations. I'm not sure SE would want this because it would make the ninja look less "Ninja" to everyone except the Ninja themselves. If they removed client side mudra animations, this would also make the ninja look less "Ninja".

Sure, SE could have the Ninjutsu activation also show the Mudra cast animations for each mudra before casting the Ninjutsu, but that will cause a character animation delay between what the Ninja player will see on their screen and what every other player will see on their screen.

One thing to keep in mind, is that SE does not want the Ninja class to be like the Ninja class of FFXI. The FFXI version of Ninja did not have mudra's, instead, it just had Ninjutsu spells with casting time and animations. That is why the FFXIV version of Ninja has mudra's.

[Altena]

Sure, SE could have the Ninjutsu activation also show the Mudra cast animations for each mudra before casting the Ninjutsu, but that will cause a character animation delay between what the Ninja player will see on their screen and what every other player will see on their screen.

Gameplay > Aesthetics is personally always my priority, however I understand your point, and I can't argue that many people rate aesthetics higher on the list.

I personally filter out party animations to "Limited" and others to "None" just because there are already enough flashy lights to me.

If it were flawless/lagless mudras vs. external mudra aesthetics, my vote would be the lagless mudras.

I absolutely love the mudra system, it's just the packet loss/rollbacks that infuriate me.

[DragonFlyy]

The easiest fix SE could do is just break it up from a combo system and give a single skill for each Ninjitsu.