to Yoshi P. (Please read)

[Cichy]

How can you be nostalgia driven with something that's still around today?

"Man I miss the 90s, it sucks that it's 1994."

That's would be what you're saying.

I'm sorry but people who never even touched FFXI hated FFXIV even more than those of us who enjoyed/currently enjoy their other FF MMO. Care to explain why people that never played FFXI hated FFXIV? Since you said yourself, it wouldn't be good to those who are full of FFXI nostalgia.

I swear people just hate FFXI because it's doing a lot better than XIV is even 10 years later.

It again goes back to battered housewife syndrome.
FFXI players are used to shut up and put up attitude SE given them for years and they used to not well developed content.
People who dint play XI and played other MMOs out there have more of a put out or get out attitude. They more likely to move on because they seen whats out there and dont have same emotional attachment.

[AkayoAkayu]

also, it's never a good idea to claim that only you and people who agrees with you are the "true fans", since that only puts you squarely in the "jackasses" category, with a huge "I HAZ GIANT EGO" sticker on your forehead.

I dont think I meant for it to come across the way you took my statement. I know ppl who dont agree with me arent jackasses, im not that egocentric. The ppl i referred to as "jackasses" are people who dont really care, not ppl i disagree with, i welcome disagreements. It was probably just a poor word choice.

I'm not a fan of "all other MMOs", but a XI style timesink is still unfeasible for me, omg, it's a paradox!!! or it could just be called having RL commitments, take a guess which one is more likely.

I too have RL commitments, assuming that anyone doesnt isnt a very good idea.

the best? most of the game before required hard grind? there's been all of ONE FF MMO before 14, and no, the single player ones don't count, as those are completely different, and for that matter - far easier to hit cap anyway

They actually arent that different, the main difference is single player vs multiplayer and leveling up should take longer in the MMO. As for flow and the overall feel it should feel like Final Fantasy, not [insert generic MMO here]. Of course single player RPGs are gonna have a shorter leveling requirement, but in order to reach cap in them you still have to "grind" a lot.
50 isnt really the cap anyway, its a temporary cap so I expect it to be kinda easy, my worry is just that (let's assume the cap will follow how XI did, 75 for years) if the cap is raised to 75 that the leveling speed will be shortened to allow for 1-75 to take the same amt of time as 1-50 is now, i dunno why this just seems to me like if that were to happen then raising the cap would be meaningless. 1-50 is at a pretty good pace in my opinion. (and yes, obviously all of this is my opinion, as is everyone else's comments)

The point of my whole too-long post was simply that it is very common for ppl to compare everything to other stuff and maybe that's not always good.

(P.S. I know I'm probably a "fanboy" and I'm ok with that, the world needs fanboys sometimes)

[odette]

To all FFXIV fans/players If you disagree with anything I have said im sorry but I know for fact these are the views of many. Please refrain from flaming and keep this thread open for cirtical comments. Also if anyone would like to add anything to this post it up and I will edit this post.

Yoshi, first Ioff I want to say thank you for doing everything in your power to fix this game. I know you have your work cut out for you as this game was one of the biggest mmorpg letdowns to date at launch. To no surprise almost everyone whom Ive talked to and everyone on the forums is rooting for you to make this a game we all can play and enjoy as we did so in FFXI. A little background about myself, I started playing FFXI at NA release and played it right up to FFXIV release. I know I dont speak for all but im sure I speak for most when I say I had some of the most fun and memorable gaming experiences of my life on FFXI. We want FFXIV to do the same, with that being said please and I STRESS please listen to your hardcore fanbase and not the people that rarely play and just want things to be easy and handed to them. The reason FFXI was so amazing and so memorable is beause there was so much sense of Accomplishment.
I know I am only one person but here below is things that I feel would bring us the perfect FFXIV experience. Final Fantasy will not capture the wow audience or the everquest audience, so please go in your own direction. There is a reason ffxi was sucessfull and that is because it was different. I hope FFXIV can serve as a different mmo as well.

1. Leveling (Yes, alot of people complained about the grind in ffxi, but personally I loved it. If I wanted to level my character to the cap by questing I would go play literally any other mmo on the market. As I feel FFXIV is actually headed in the right direction in this category, I have heard some things I did not like, such as yoshi saying it would become more easy to level. One of the best things about ffxi to me was lvling my character. Parties were fun! I loved good grinding parties. That was a experience in itself leveling my character to 75. In this game it is flat out boring. I used to HATE regional leves as I felt is was a boring, repetative, and a un-enjoyable experience to level your character. That being said after the adjustments you guys have made, I think there is a place in the game for them as long as they arent the main focus when leveling your character. As much as I hate solo content some is needed and I dont think this is a bad route to take. I love the fact that recently people have started partying. Although I am a little tired of killing raptors and going to the same camps over and over, I still feel shades of FFXI while grinding. I really wish though it wasnt so much roaming like merit parties were in 11. I loved merit parties but if parties are going to be roaming parties then the mobs need to be closer together with a higher respawn rate. THE MAIN FOCUS OF LEVELING YOUR CHARACTER SHOULD BE GROUPING.. ANYTHING IS UNACCEPTABLE AND WILL LEAD TO THE DEATH OF THIS GAME.

2. Grouping (The idea of light party and full party needs to go away. Yes it is better than what we had before but I would like to see the traditional 6 person party with the option for an allience when doing harder things. I know you can still sp with 4 players or you can do it with 8 but it just makes the game so much more balanced if a party can just have a normal set amount of players. Why change something if it wasnt broken in the first place. 6 person party is the way to go, as long as we have alliance options.

3. Quest (Thank you, thank you thank you, for making the side quest pretty much worthless, I have done them all and while I got some sp and gil from them the rewards were small. This is a good thing. I have always been a firm beleiver in quest shouldnt yield xp. I mean again like i said if i wanted to lvl off quest id go play wow. Quest should be there as sense of accomplishment with only some offering decent rewards. The idea of fame in ffxi was great. I would love to see city-fame make a return in this game.

4. Crafting (while extremely boring, I dont have to many complaints about this. I mean what did you expect? Its SE and things will be random and thats pretty much how crafting is. The stuff I would like to see changed is being addressed such as supprt/HQ/NQ and a few other small minor tweaks. PLEASE OH PLEASE FIND A WAY TO GET RID OF BOTTING.

5. Sense of acomplishment (One of the number one complaints on this game so I wont drill on it to hard but something has to be done. As cool as seemless zones are I miss my zones... looking at the same scenery all day makes me not want to play.

6. Endgame!! (most important of all)

A. HNM- Please put HNM into this game, I know many people hated them but they dont have to do them. FFXI did it right and here is why. HNM served as probably the most time consuming endgame content that yielded the least amount of gear. The gear that did drop was some of the best gear on the game and it really seperated the hardcore players from the casuals. You didnt have to have hnm gear to have good gear or be a good player, there were other options. Personally I LOVED HNM ever with the problem of the bots. Yes i know bots would win alot of the time but I claimed many hnm in my day without one. Id rather do hnm where people botted then do gay dungeons and other instanced content that is easy and the gear will just become obsolete with a new patch.

B. Open world content- Holy freak was sky and sea amazing.... I mean seriously years and years people spent doing those things.. It offered so much content and was so well done. It let linkshells compete against each other in certain ways. All I will say is if there is no sea/sky in this game I will most likely quit.

C. Dungeons- Plain and simple if I wanted to do instanced dungeons id go play other mmos. Not only was darkhold horribly done, it was just a bunch of copy and paste tunnels that offered nothing but repetitiveness. Oh and please do away with gear dropping from chest before the freaking bosses... really??? You want to reward people just for putting a group together and running in a kiling a few lvl 50 mobs to get a few pieces of gear? What a joke. My favorite thing on 11 was that gear was hard to obtain but it made it worthwhile once you got it. A dungeon here and there is ok, but if this is the main focus for endgame content, again I will not play.

D. Make endgame acess for certain things actually hard/worthwhile to obtain..
I know i keep bringing up ffxi but seriously Zilart and CoP did it perfect.. Again it seperated hardcore players from casuals. Im sorry but just like in life there are poor people and rich people, sick people and healthy people.. Its a cycle, casual players should not be able to do everything the hardcore players do. Plain and simple, If I have to work my ass off for gear then as soon as I turn my head casuals are getting it becase its either easy in the first place or it is dumbed down for them then again I wont play.

JUST TO PUT THIS IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS, US FF FANS ARE HARDCORE AND WANT HARDCORE CONTENT NOT THE SAME CONTENT IN OTHER MMOS.

E. Instanced content- There is a place for instanced content such as something like a dynamis, nyzle isle, salvage, ect.. but please make them fun/memorable and something you want to keep coming back to. Please stay away from instanced dungeons.

F. Meriting- One of my favorite things about ffxi. Plain and simple I loved it and i wish this game would even go further in detail with it.

Hopefully, I didnt upset to many people with this post, but I am almost sure I speak for most of you with what i have said here. I hope you took the time to read this yoshi as we are all rooting for you to bring us the game we want to love.

i'm disagree with you, you want another ffxi, i prefer ffxiv new things
and forgot hnms, mayne you are ls member when always claim it and monopolize it

[AkayoAkayu]

I dont see how wanting stuff from XI that FF fans liked is any different and why it seems to be frowned upon as opposed to ppl wanting more quests, faster leveling, novelty mounts, and an overall more casual experience, which are all aspects from other games. Why is it bad to want things from a previous game in the same series that worked? (i realize XI had an AH, the AH discussion is for a different forum)

It's ok for stuff like Call of Duty to be nothing but reskins of previous versions but me wanting just some of the gameplay mechanics of a previous game is bad? The only things ppl really ask for from previous FF games are equal amounts of things to do as you are lvling compared to endgame things (it's about the journey as much as the destination); and simple changes that dont effect any real gameplay, such as party search and some UI changes, the significant aspects of the game are more than open to change for the traditional fan (thus we still have Market Wards rather than the run-of-the-mill AH).

The same things ppl are saying about "you want another FFXI" can be said about ppl wanting such things as an AH, chocobos in town, more quest-based leveling, and shorter leveling requirements. It's the same thing for me to say "you just want another World of Warcraft". The changes are just as significant in the overall aspect of the game, not very. The only argument I really have is that the ones who are criticized as "wanting XI-2" are usually asking for things that are common in FF games and the opposition is asking for things that are popular in other series.

[Aenarion]

I dont see how wanting stuff from XI that FF fans liked is any different and why it seems to be frowned upon as opposed to ppl wanting more quests, faster leveling, novelty mounts, and an overall more casual experience, which are all aspects from other games. Why is it bad to want things from a previous game in the same series that worked? (i realize XI had an AH, the AH discussion is for a different forum)

it's not, and ultimately it's no more and no less valid as those who don't want to see another FF11. But like everything else on the internet, people can't see past their own opinion and starts to sling mud at each other.

Also, you have to realize that this game was never designed to be FF11-2, which makes you the one who wants to change things to be like 11, and obviously those who disagree will resist.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

How can you be nostalgia driven with something that's still around today?

"Man I miss the 90s, it sucks that it's 1994."

That's would be what you're saying.

I'm sorry but people who never even touched FFXI hated FFXIV even more than those of us who enjoyed/currently enjoy their other FF MMO. Care to explain why people that never played FFXI hated FFXIV? Since you said yourself, it wouldn't be good to those who are full of FFXI nostalgia.

I swear people just hate FFXI because it's doing a lot better than XIV is even 10 years later.

It's not the same game anymore. When people refer to FFXI, they almost always refer to it pre Abyssea. Don't humor me with a ridiculous argument like this. MMOs, FFXI speicifically, is not the same game now that it was 2 years ago, 5 years ago, or 10 years ago. C'mon Jenn. You're smarter than this.

[AkayoAkayu]

I dont want it to be like xi necessarily, just final fantasy. Really as long as story is the driving force(obviously later on) ill be happy. But i would say that stuff such as the xi pt search, for example, should be implemented. Its a great feature in itself, not just because its from xi. It really only remains relevant as long as pts are preferred while leveling up, random groups arent exactly relevant when we get large-scale endgame, thatl be LS stuff. And as seen in games such as (but not limited to) WoW, parties are nearly nonexistant while leveling up via quests. I like how theyre making it so caual players can use leves to lvl at a reasonable pace but the ppl with more time to invest have a incentive to form parties and lvl the old fashioned way, its a very good strategy and i hope they continue in that direction. XI didnt have that flexibility and its more than welcome here, its a great middleground to the 2 main lvling styles ppl employ.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

i would say that stuff such as the xi pt search, for example, should be implemented. Its a great feature in itself, not just because its from xi. It really only remains relevant as long as pts are preferred while leveling up, random groups arent exactly relevant when we get large-scale endgame, thatl be LS stuff.

Yes, this is absolutely correct. As far as party recruitment goes, it isn't exactly something that is a subjective thing. Party search wasn't a contributing factor of the emotional connection people had with the game. It is needed regardless of if FFXI existed or not.

[Anapingofness]

I dont want it to be like xi necessarily, just final fantasy. Really as long as story is the driving force(obviously later on) ill be happy. But i would say that stuff such as the xi pt search, for example, should be implemented. Its a great feature in itself, not just because its from xi. It really only remains relevant as long as pts are preferred while leveling up, random groups arent exactly relevant when we get large-scale endgame, thatl be LS stuff. And as seen in games such as (but not limited to) WoW, parties are nearly nonexistant while leveling up via quests. I like how theyre making it so caual players can use leves to lvl at a reasonable pace but the ppl with more time to invest have a incentive to form parties and lvl the old fashioned way, its a very good strategy and i hope they continue in that direction. XI didnt have that flexibility and its more than welcome here, its a great middleground to the 2 main lvling styles ppl employ.

You are not wrong in your previous post- the one where you asked if it was wrong to want stuff from FFXI, however I think the things you wanted to express were clearly lost in translation (if you will).

No, you're not wrong because I too want certain things to be taken from FFXI and implemented to FFXIV, however, I want those things to be a starting point. Take for example the AH.

FFXI's AH was good, now for FFXIV they should make it even better.

The current system is very flawed. The reason players wanted an AH over the Wards is because searching for items via Wards is still a huge pain in the behind. If I'm looking for an item I want to be able to find it in a matter of seconds, not spend god knows how long searching for it. As of right now they're (the Wards) are not as bad as they were when the game first launched but I'd like a proper system put in place. If I'm searching the Wards for whatever item I want/need then I'm not really playing the game. Am I?

Secondly, I agree. What made FF well FF is the storyline. FFXI had an amazing storyline in each of its expansions. I want that same level of commitment and depth in this game as well, not a rehash of those stories (for example). Also I want a good community. In my opinion FFXI had a great community. FFXIV needs to follow that example and set out to make an even better community of players.

I've stuck with FFXI through thick and thin and there are things that didn't work out (such as their HNM camping for endgame). It is things like that that most players, especially the ones who have played FFXI (and still continue to play) want to avoid.

I'm sticking with FFXIV because I want to believe that they can make something great with it. I think they've done a good job so far and I know they're working hard on improving it. However, as I've mentioned before, things will take time and we're really beta testers now.

In any case, I do value your opinion and I'm glad that you took the time to let all of us know (including devs) how you feel. However, I do urge you to really consider the things you're saying. FFXI means a lot to me and sometimes it is hard not to look at it through rose colored glasses but in order to give this game the attention that it deserves, one needs to.

=D

p.s. I think you're really saying what a lot of us have already said, I just think it may have come out wrong or interpreted wrong.

[AkayoAkayu]

I usually do come across wrong since im not used to talkin very much

I do think the wards should be given real attention and effort for improvements before (if) they make the decision to scrap it. In its current state the wards arent really that different from a traditional AH. The only difference is u have to get your item from a specific npc, maybe a 30 sec difference from buying directly. Finding items is just as easy as an AH. I would say the wards might even be better than an AH (at least xi's) because you can put up to 20 things for sale at once, unless u buy a 3rd retainer (not sure if available yet) as opposed to the max of 7 in XI.

I dont mean to keep comparing, it's just a good reference.