Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
This might just be conjecture, but I'm under the belief that if the Heavens' Ward and Thordan's "Primal Mode" transformations are really the same thing as a Primal summoning, it might just be that because they're sustained by the faith of Ishgardian citizens to "expunge any enemies that threaten the nation," anyone the Heavens' Ward perceives as a threat will still be attacked by their alter ego. It just looks like they're in control because the "Primal Mode" has the same basic goals, and we don't see anything of them outside combat.

Of course there's also the possibility they got Zodiark-Echo from the Ascians like the Sahagin chief, but we don't know that.
We see enough to make that harder to believe.
The first case is for Haurchefant's death. That guy transforms pretty seamlessly and follows the same targeting.
Maybe he has the same goals, but that was very specific instead of the usual transform, then defeat the foes in front of you.

That can go either way, but the Archbishop's transformation - I can't see that being separate.
He transforms mid-conversation seamlessly. He even turns to us, and says that he's become a primal, that which we abhor.
He is identifying there with his original self there.
His whole out-of-combat speech there was clearly the same person, not some primal with similar goals.

This part is after Azys Lla though.
What's interesting in Azys Lla is that we don't know what they were there for or if they accomplished it. I assume they did since they left on their own terms, rather triumphantly.
I really want to know what they did during all that time in Azys Lla.
We chased them, then they show up in the end with the other Eye. The only thing I can think of is that the coffin was in Azys Lla. But that seems unlikely.

I don't doubt they had the Echo though.
They consorted and played the Ascians. It doesn't seem a stretch the Ascians gave each the Echo as they did the Sahagin chief.
I bet the Ascians thought them everything about the Primals, including how to control it with the given Echo like Iceheart did (and we know she was in complete control).
Lahabrea was too cocky. He didn't believe that his puppets could or would use what he gave them against him.

But again, they were in Azys Lla, as well, doing God(king) knows what.
I agree it can be inferred that it likely had something to do with controlling or powering up their primal forms.