Please, Developers, Please! Put an end to Easy Mode thinking

[darkstarpoet1]

While that is true I consider it mostly an American game developer phenomenon made popular by games like WoW, and then emulated by everyone else. Sure this game was originally designed under Tanaka to be complete and utter "casual" nonsense, but since Yoshi took over he has repeatedly said and demonstrated his plans to offer challenge and content for hardcore players also.

This was almost 100% the result of it being demanded by large portions of the Japanese player base. So be sure to thank them for saving us from our fellow countrymen and their incessant and very vocal whining about how difficulty=impossibility which has driven practically all other mainstream game development into the ground.

Help me Yoshida-san, you're my only hope!

demonstrated to offer challenge? you mean like nerfing of the nm's a few months back to where they were laughably easy or was it the dungeon runs that reward you for running past all mobs to get the speed bonus?

[Murugan]

demonstrated to offer challenge? you mean like nerfing of the nm's a few months back to where they were laughably easy or was it the dungeon runs that reward you for running past all mobs to get the speed bonus?

Darkhold is much more difficult than 15 person party NM's ever were. Do you even play the game still, or listen to yourself?

This game was never balanced to support 15 person parties, those NM's just had a few more mobs and more HP. I'd actually say they were much harder after 1.18 than they ever were due to fixes to the enmity system.

[darkstarpoet1]

Darkhold is much more difficult than 15 person party NM's ever were. Do you even play the game still, or listen to yourself?

This game was never balanced to support 15 person parties, those NM's just had a few more mobs and more HP. I'd actually say they were much harder after 1.18 than they ever were due to fixes to the enmity system.

i'm guessing you are the one that just started playing. the nm's were alot more difficult(even in 15 man parties) when they were first released than the dungeons were.

why you may ask?

the game was released in september and the nm's were introduced in january which meant you had 4 months of learning of the battle system and getting accustomed to it. even when those nm's came out they lasted much longer than the 1 week the darkhold held people before they figured out the easiest way to defeat it. i can't tell you how many times the dodore defeated the 15 man parties before people figured out the strategy to beat it. yes, it became super easy once people figured out emulate, but it lasted quite a while before that.

a new battle system was released at the same time the dungeon was and within a week there were ls's already farming the loot out of there. they were already using the new system figured it out enough to beat the dungeon within a week. a week.

i take months to drop all of the nm's with a system they had been using for months as being much more difficult than using a new system and beating a dungeon within a week.

i completed darkhold on my second run, but i can assure you i did not beat every nm, even with those 15 man parties, on my second attempt.

[Murugan]

i'm guessing you are the one that just started playing. the nm's were alot more difficult(even in 15 man parties) when they were first released than the dungeons were.

why you may ask?

the game was released in september and the nm's were introduced in january which meant you had 4 months of learning of the battle system and getting accustomed to it. even when those nm's came out they lasted much longer than the 1 week the darkhold held people before they figured out the easiest way to defeat it. i can't tell you how many times the dodore defeated the 15 man parties before people figured out the strategy to beat it. yes, it became super easy once people figured out emulate, but it lasted quite a while before that.

a new battle system was released at the same time the dungeon was and within a week there were ls's already farming the loot out of there. they were already using the new system figured it out enough to beat the dungeon within a week. a week.

i take months to drop all of the nm's with a system they had been using as being much more difficult than using a new system and beating a dungeon within a week.

i completed darkhold on my second run, but i can assure you i did not beat every nm, even with those 15 man parties, on my second attempt.

lol not even close, our linkshell killed all the NM's before we had a tank with emulate, and couldn't even field 10 50's at a time (let alone the multi-class ability combinations people are capable of today). The mobs themselves weren't even close to as difficult as Deepvoid/Batraal (most everyone in the endgame community agrees on this), but maybe if you had weaker groups then it might have seemed that way.


Go try the NM's now if you still have access to 7 other people willing to do them. They are much harder than they were then, even considering how much more skilled/equiped/stocked with different abilities people are now compared to January.

[darkstarpoet1]

lol not even close.

then please show me where i am wrong.

using the system for 4 months and then taking a few months to drop all of the nm's with 15 man parties >>> having a new system and only taking a week to figure out how to beat the highest end dungeon in the game(the hard content)

[Murugan]

then please show me where i am wrong.

using the system for 4 months and then taking a few months to drop all of the nm's with 15 man parties >>> having a new system and only taking a week to figure out how to beat the highest end dungeon in the game(the hard content)

It took you a few months, but people had killed them all in less than a week (I think it was actually only like 48 hours so not even comparable to the one week it took for people to figure out Darkhold Speed runs), and that was most likely because these had pop windows attached to them which meant you could do them less often.

Batraal/Deepvoid Slave are much more difficult encounters than Dodore/Mammoth/Uraeus/Goat/Hoatblox ever were.

[darkstarpoet1]

lol not even close, our linkshell killed all the NM's before we had a tank with emulate, and couldn't even field 10 50's at a time (let alone the multi-class ability combinations people are capable of today). The mobs themselves weren't even close to as difficult as Deepvoid/Batraal (most everyone in the endgame community agrees on this), but maybe if you had weaker groups then it might have seemed that way.


Go try the NM's now if you still have access to 7 other people willing to do them. They are much harder than they were then, even considering how much more skilled/equiped/stocked with different abilities people are now compared to January.

nice ninja edit btw. just for the record i have killed all 5 world nm's since the updates and have trio'd the buffalo since the updates. sorry to burst your bubble, but i have done it and i have barely used the new battle system because i am not a fan of it. why would i need to get 7 others when i can get a partial party and still do it?

It took you a few months, but people had killed them all in less than a week (I think it was actually only like 48 hours so not even comparable to the one week it took for people to figure out Darkhold Speed runs), and that was most likely because these had pop windows attached to them which meant you could do them less often.

Batraal/Deepvoid Slave are much more difficult encounters than Dodore/Mammoth/Uraeus/Goat/Hoatblox ever were.

and once again you are trying to compare a new battle system to one people had been using for 4 months before the world nm's were released. 4 months worth of learning the battle system even if they killed it first try compared to a new dungeon and a new system you got at the same time.

it's so difficult i killed it on my second attempt.

[Murugan]

nice ninja edit btw. just for the record i have killed all 5 world nm's since the updates and have trio'd the buffalo since the updates. sorry to burst your bubble, but i have done it and i have barely used the new battle system because i am not a fan of it. why would i need to get 7 others when i can get a partial party and still do it?

People "trio'd" the NM's before the "nerf". RMT's did it. Your point? Go trio Batraal I might be impressed.

[darkstarpoet1]

People "trio'd" the NM's before the "nerf". RMT's did it. Your point? Go trio Batraal I might be impressed.

i could care less about impressing you. i was making a point. i could not trio the world nm's within a month of release, but i have been able to trio them within a month of this patch. that makes it easier now to me than it was then. i was not able to do all of the nm's within a week of release, even in 15 man parties, but i have beaten the dungeon within a week. that makes the dungeon easier to me now than the nm's were on release.

maybe you are just playing your class wrong is why you find the dungeon difficult?

[Murugan]

nice ninja edit btw. just for the record i have killed all 5 world nm's since the updates and have trio'd the buffalo since the updates. sorry to burst your bubble, but i have done it and i have barely used the new battle system because i am not a fan of it. why would i need to get 7 others when i can get a partial party and still do it?



and once again you are trying to compare a new battle system to one people had been using for 4 months before the world nm's were released. 4 months worth of learning the battle system even if they killed it first try compared to a new dungeon and a new system you got at the same time.

it's so difficult i killed it on my second attempt.

The old combat system was not hard.

Healing: AOE Cures (just don't buff during battle lol )
Tank: Buff spam!!
DD: Basic attack Spam>TP spam!
Archer: Multi spam! (so... pretty much the same as now)


If it took anyone all 4 months to figure out how to use the previous combat system then it is likely they were just lazy because of how broken the original XP system was (and the ones that followed it under Tanaka).

Oh and you say "new system" like we got all new abilities and classes. They just removed stamina, added auto attack and timers to certain abilities (as well buffed a few). Things didn't change so much that competent players couldn't still play competently.