Please, Developers, Please! Put an end to Easy Mode thinking

[EmeraldHill]

You did a R5 leve as a R25 and complained it was easy. Credibility is out the window.

As for some other whiners: Get off your fail-logic express. Grind does not equal difficulty.

OH NOES CHOCOBO FOR 3K SEALS BUT I WANT TO DRUDGE THROUGH THE SNOW AND FALL ON SPIKES SO I CAN FEEL SPECIAL WHEN I FINALLY GET IT!!

Who gives a shit, really? You've been teleporting for free for the last year and you're complaining about a mount's cost? I'm sorry if you want to feel superior to the peons as you ride on your derpobo but y'all need to get over yourselves. A game is supposed to be about fun, not about how long you made yourself suffer just to attain something. Go play FFXI or Lineage 2 if you want to grind your ass off.

[Bled]

You did a R5 leve as a R25 and complained it was easy. Credibility is out the window.

As for some other whiners: Get off your fail-logic express. Grind does not equal difficulty.

OH NOES CHOCOBO FOR 3K SEALS BUT I WANT TO DRUDGE THROUGH THE SNOW AND FALL ON SPIKES SO I CAN FEEL SPECIAL WHEN I FINALLY GET IT!!

Who gives a shit, really? You've been teleporting for free for the last year and you're complaining about a mount's cost? I'm sorry if you want to feel superior to the peons as you ride on your derpobo but y'all need to get over yourselves. A game is supposed to be about fun, not about how long you made yourself suffer just to attain something. Go play FFXI or Lineage 2 if you want to grind your ass off.

I know personally i never said a grind was difficult, however grind is just a derogatory term coined up to counter the word progress. I find the whole "PWEASE PWEASE SE I DONT WANT PROGRESSION, I JUST WANT IT ALL NOWZZZ!!!!" to be ignorant and a lazy mentality.

I personally wouldn't find it fun to start at level cap with full gear, and anything i ever wanted just an NPC speech away, there's no character progression in that.

[AmyRae]

I know personally i never said a grind was difficult, however grind is just a derogatory term coined up to counter the word progress. I find the whole "PWEASE PWEASE SE I DONT WANT PROGRESSION, I JUST WANT IT ALL NOWZZZ!!!!" to be ignorant and a lazy mentality.

Who is saying they want it all now?

What casual players want are some goals that can be achieved with a few hours of playtime a week. It's not instant gratification they want at all, just a significant experience that doesn't take up 40 hours a week like it was a second job.

Grinding is not a derogatory term. A game series like Disgaea prides itself on grinding. But at least they make the game accessible to those who don't want to achieve level 9999. It shouldn't be impossible for FFXIV to mix casual and hardcore content either.

The very best of what the materia system offers is hardcore content. Casual players just don't have the time to get anything better than the basics, unless by some miracle, hardcore players can make the good stuff affordable. There's an example of where a grind will make those with plenty of time to waste push further ahead than those who can't.

Getting a chocobo to raise doesn't require a grind; it's a transportation feature that should be reasonably accessible to the masses. It's silly to insist on it being hardcore. It didn't even require a grind in grind-happy FFXI. It's just a ridiculous demand that's out-of-place with the times.

[Bled]

Who is saying they want it all now?

What casual players want are some goals that can be achieved with a few hours of playtime a week. It's not instant gratification they want at all, just a significant experience that doesn't take up 40 hours a week like it was a second job.

Grinding is not a derogatory term. A game series like Disgaea prides itself on grinding. But at least they make the game accessible to those who don't want to achieve level 9999. It shouldn't be impossible for FFXIV to mix casual and hardcore content either.

The very best of what the materia system offers is hardcore content. Casual players just don't have the time to get anything better than the basics, unless by some miracle, hardcore players can make the good stuff affordable. There's an example of where a grind will make those with plenty of time to waste push further ahead than those who can't.

Getting a chocobo to raise doesn't require a grind; it's a transportation feature that should be reasonably accessible to the masses. It's silly to insist on it being hardcore. It didn't even require a grind in grind-happy FFXI. It's just a ridiculous demand that's out-of-place with the times.

Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

Above is the definition of a grind and it has heavy derogatory overtones.

I get it casuals want to experience all the same content and achieve all the same goals, but lets face it guys weather you have time for a game or not should not reflect on the games development. I feel for the casual crowd having 40 hour jobs (like my self) and a life outside of video games is vary time consuming however just because you can only devout 10 hours a week should not mean that the game itself is ridiculously easy. A job is a paid position of regular employment which i know for a fact that a majority of you dont get payed to play video games so lets drop the "o my god this game takes time it must be a job"... A real job actually involves physical/mental work.

Disgaea does in fact pride itself on grinding yet that does not make the term any less derogatory, Disgaea if you have ever played it is a very humors title with an even more humors development team. When the developers of Disgaea made statements of the grind in their game it was for a lack of a better word, wrapped in humors satire.

time invested = reward if you don't invest the time =/= reward.

I agree the Chocobo achievement quest should not be a accumulate x amount of this seal and turn in, that's what ultimately lead to WoW's demise. Personally i would have liked to seen a deep story driven quest, with multiple layers for the chocobo license.

[darkstarpoet1]

Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

Above is the definition of a grind and it has heavy derogatory overtones.

no, it is the truth. pulling the same mob over and over to kill it for hours on end is exactly that. standard bashing crafts for days on end making the same item is exactly that. they are both repetitive and non entertaining, but the only reason you do them is to gain sp/exp to gain ranks so you can do other things. they completely fit the definition you gave and it matches them both perfectly.

[AmyRae]

Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

Above is the definition of a grind and it has heavy derogatory overtones.

So, how do you ask for grinding if you're embarrassed to admit that's what it is you want? And will you really be surprised when you don't get it?

[Rutelor]

You did a R5 leve as a R25 and complained it was easy. Credibility is out the window.

As for some other whiners: Get off your fail-logic express. Grind does not equal difficulty.

OH NOES CHOCOBO FOR 3K SEALS BUT I WANT TO DRUDGE THROUGH THE SNOW AND FALL ON SPIKES SO I CAN FEEL SPECIAL WHEN I FINALLY GET IT!!

Who gives a shit, really? You've been teleporting for free for the last year and you're complaining about a mount's cost? I'm sorry if you want to feel superior to the peons as you ride on your derpobo but y'all need to get over yourselves. A game is supposed to be about fun, not about how long you made yourself suffer just to attain something. Go play FFXI or Lineage 2 if you want to grind your ass off.

As usual, those that lose the sense of propriety the earliest, are the ones that make the least sense.

I'm not complaining about difficulty or the lack thereof. I'm complaining about the lack of challenge, depth and complexity... Perhaps you're unable to discern the difference, but believe me you, there is one.

As to my doing the leve at that rank, I wasn't expecting hard fights. I wanted to check out the new sidequests, which had been deployed just then. The quest I did was the only one I could find after running around the city and, being somewhat intelligent, I said to myself "I'll probably be able to see how sidequests are deployed, even if the mobs are too squishy for me." My issues with that quest, and every single other one I've encountered in the game, was not the strength of the mobs, but rather the fact that there was no build up to face the mobs, no environmental puzzle to solve, not even one degree of hurdling to make the quest feel like an adventure. And also, the fact that there were 17 mobs eagerly waiting to be slaughtered, just parked in a corner of the universe. I forgot to mention that every single one of them dropped the item that was required. Mobs, I might add, that existed nowhere else. The implementation of the quest seemed makeshift, inorganic, and not an integral part of the world.

I care for this game and I want it improved. I'm not whining, I'm giving constructive, and sometimes exasperated criticism. I am not a developer, not a game designer. I am a player and my criticism and review of the structures of the game come from my perspective, which is an important one, just as yours is.

I advocate for a game that can include both your vision and mine, but I don't believe we'll get there without level-headed, well-intentioned, respectful, articulate, and constructive criticism, and the dialog that ensues from that. I'm doing my part.

R

[weeble]

i mentioned this in the yoshi thread, hopefully they read it and consider it for this game or at the least start to consider it for other mmo's they make. rather then make them all easy so it works for the masses, do kinda what diablo3 is doing. they have a hardcore mode where u lose all your stuff when u die, but they layered them onto same servers as everyone else.

rather then easy modes only or go hardcore only, or instead of seperate servers they can do this for mmo's in general.

layer hardcore players and casuals, separate there auction houses, set different rules for both for the specific things that make it so. and then still allow it to be full server of mixed players that can still do everything else together. caps and forced party, or low drop rates, and battle bosses being extremely challenging ...things like that for some then others it can be more lenient and easy, they have theres all quicker.

[darkstarpoet1]

i mentioned this in the yoshi thread, hopefully they read it and consider it for this game or at the least start to consider it for other mmo's they make. rather then make them all easy so it works for the masses, do kinda what diablo3 is doing. they have a hardcore mode where u lose all your stuff when u die, but they layered them onto same servers as everyone else.

rather then easy modes only or go hardcore only, or instead of seperate servers they can do this for mmo's in general.

layer hardcore players and casuals, separate there auction houses, set different rules for both for the specific things that make it so. and then still allow it to be full server of mixed players that can still do everything else together. caps and forced party, or low drop rates, and battle bosses being extremely challenging ...things like that for some then others it can be more lenient and easy, they have theres all quicker.

and once again you are incorrectly putting the casual = easy and hardcore = difficult scenario. i don't see the casuals in here asking for easy mode. i see them asking for options for different play styles(solo or party, questing or grind) and people attacking them for it. i haven't heard casuals in here complaining darkhold was too hard nor did i hear them saying the nm's were too difficult.

i see casuals asking for nothing more than not just adding time sinks that they cannot do. i don't see an issue with there they feel about that, but i wish there was some long term goals. the thing to me is they could do those long term goals like relic's or long quest items to where even the casual player can complete eventually.

they could make it to where it is a progression based type quest where you cannot access the next stage until you complete one section. each minor section could take an hour or so before you get access to the next part and have to move to another area. this would allow hardcore players(all i think of when i say hardcore is more time) to complete the quest in a few weeks/months, but would not exclude the casuals completely. sure it may take them a year to get that super elite item because they can only play one small piece a day, but at least they could feel like they were progressing towards it and would eventually be able to acquire it.

the thing i don't want to see is 1 spawn a week hnm's or whatever again. to me, that is not a good thing to have for hardcore or casuals. that's good for the ls's that use claim bots and nobody else.

remember i say this as one of the hardcore players, but i can still look and see where the casuals are coming from. casual payers are not wanting easy mode in general no more than hardcores all want to see 1 week mob spawns. i personally just think everyone wants a game in general that they can play and enjoy.

[weeble]

either way the point i was making was simple, there are many type of players and they all like different styles. instead of calling a game, one for the masses but still removing many of the game types and saying take it or leave it, cause theres more of the others players ...create a mmo that can work for all of them, seperate game styles. have the options to play them on easy medium hard, so to speak.

also i've seem plenty in the forums actually saying the dungeon was hard, not many though, an i am not trying to really say hardcore or casual. i should i guess use the words different playstyles instead since the only thing people will see is those 2 words in all of my thread instead.

these forums wouldn't be bustling with people complaining and argueing if we weren't all looking for something different from each other so why not layer servers to work for both, it is all i'm saying. catering to specific players or "the masses" is just another word for dumbed down. some don't want that, give us both. make a game from scratch to be hard, then dumb it down for some not all.