The harp is a lie.

[AmyRae]

If anyone thinks Bard will have the same sheer attack power as Archer with all the musical skills on top of it, I expect them to be greatly disappointed.

I think they'll have both.

So, yeah. I'll see your disappointment, and raise you one overpowered job.

[Reika]

Again i will use Disgaea which is labeled as a "hardcore" game, at least post game being hardcore.

I work a 40 hour job that requires mandatory overtime, along with balancing my friends with my girl friend which i live with, along with my normal responsibilities and yet! i still not only got to all of Disgeas end game or post game content but i for the most part completed it putting in well over 200 hours.

I don't have much time to game yet i still love me some "hardcore" games and if the game is enjoyable enough and challenging, then i will invest my time in it.

Edit: I know Disgaea is not a good comparison based on genre, however I'm basing it on hours played and the term "hardcore" content.

On that note. I really wish there was a 'Disgaea online'. I would ditch ffxiv for that in a heartbeat!

[Physic]

Who said anything about Bard getting a dagger? Where are you guys pulling this stuff from?

Bard will simply have a bowharp/lyrebow. Plain and simple. It will play tunes and shoot arrows.

If you guys are seriously trying to take this argument to the balance aspect of things, you really must have run out of speculations to argue over. It's just petty nitpicking at this point.

Yoshi made it clear he is a PvP buff. He also repeated many times he is taking great care when it comes to class/job balance. If anyone thinks Bard will have the same sheer attack power as Archer with all the musical skills on top of it, I expect them to be greatly disappointed.

Speculation can be fun. It's a combination of educated guesses and hopes. Arguing over speculations as if they are certain is just silly though.

already amended that, and to be honest yoshi has introduced much imbalance with his changes, im fairly certain that the classes as they are now, would be horrible in a pvp situation. An archer can one shot most other jobs from a distance. mages can put enough dots on some one to kill them while they are chasing them. Every melee dps is now based on tp, which means they cant burst anyone, and they have to cover ground while fighting running ranged classes.

Melee would all need some type of snare and/or leap/movement option to stand any chance against a ranged class. a great portion of glds abilities and skills would be useless.

anyhow its not that im saying bard is unbalanced from a overpowered aspect, im saying bard is unbalanced from the whole what a job is in relation to class aspect. And from a progression aspect.

[NoctisUmbra]

already amended that, and to be honest yoshi has introduced much imbalance with his changes, im fairly certain that the classes as they are now, would be horrible in a pvp situation. An archer can one shot most other jobs from a distance. mages can put enough dots on some one to kill them while they are chasing them. Every melee dps is now based on tp, which means they cant burst anyone, and they have to cover ground while fighting running ranged classes.

Melee would all need some type of snare and/or leap/movement option to stand any chance against a ranged class. a great portion of glds abilities and skills would be useless.

anyhow its not that im saying bard is unbalanced from a overpowered aspect, im saying bard is unbalanced from the whole what a job is in relation to class aspect. And from a progression aspect.

How the classes are now is irrelevant. I believe he did explicitly say all of them were having their skillsets reworked. He is gonna introduce the proposed changes alongside the release of 1.19, and then make changes considering player feedback on 1.20.

As it is, yes Archer would destroy just about any class in a PvP scenario.

That's also why he says PvP is way down the line. He intends to make sure classes are all balanced before even attempting to add PvP.

As far as job and class progression goes, this isn't your traditional specialization tree clearly. It's apparent, should they make Bard out of Archer, that they are trying something new with this Job System. As far as making sense of it, they can do just that by tying them through the lore.

The success of Bard will be determined by how they end up building the job and how it plays - not how much sense it makes for a bow and a harp to combine.

[Physic]

How the classes are now is irrelevant. I believe he did explicitly say all of them were having their skillsets reworked. He is gonna introduce the proposed changes alongside the release of 1.19, and then make changes considering player feedback on 1.20.

As it is, yes Archer would destroy just about any class in a PvP scenario.

reorganizing skills in terms of moving them around and limiting them to certain classes wont create pvp balance, its a base mechanics issue. My point is, i dont think any of these changes with jobs and class reworking are being made with pvp balance in mind, heck the last teir showed that they werent made with pve balance in mind (archer is still win for pve in groups, whats the point of thm again?) The changes he has made to date dont seem to be focused on game/class balance.

Id have to say the focus of most of these changes are aimed at making it so they seem more unique. He wants them to excel at specific things. Honestly the idea of having these classes that are made to be specialized generally leads to even greater imbalance, especially in pvp. Pve specialized roles, is usually the opposite of pvp balance, the best you can hope for with specialized roles is rock paper scissors when it comes to pvp.

All this is just to say, i dont think the fact that he plays pvp, or pvp balance is really relevant to the pve plans being put forth. And i wouldnt be so sure that these jobs are going to be balanced anyhow.

My personal assumption is that bard will probably have the same power as archer now, however, the new DD focused classes will probably get a boost, putting it comparitively lower. But, will they give them enough of a boost? that remains to be seen.

[NoctisUmbra]

reorganizing skills in terms of moving them around and limiting them to certain classes wont create pvp balance, its a base mechanics issue. My point is, i dont think any of these changes with jobs and class reworking are being made with pvp balance in mind, heck the last teir showed that they werent made with pve balance in mind (archer is still win for pve in groups, whats the point of thm again?) The changes he has made to date dont seem to be focused on game/class balance.

Id have to say the focus of most of these changes are aimed at making it so they seem more unique. He wants them to excel at specific things. Honestly the idea of having these classes that are made to be specialized generally leads to even greater imbalance, especially in pvp. Pve specialized roles, is usually the opposite of pvp balance, the best you can hope for with specialized roles is rock paper scissors when it comes to pvp.

All this is just to say, i dont think the fact that he plays pvp, or pvp balance is really relevant to the pve plans being put forth. And i wouldnt be so sure that these jobs are going to be balanced anyhow.

My personal assumption is that bard will probably have the same power as archer now, however, the new DD focused classes will probably get a boost, putting it comparitively lower. But, will they give them enough of a boost? that remains to be seen.

The class skills, if I remember correctly, are not just being reorganized. A lot of them are to undergo significant changes. I suppose that's still besides the point though.

In the end what I mean to say is Yoshi P and thus the dev team are well aware of the significance of class balance. In fact that is one reason the job system as well as the musketeer and archanist are not set to come out anytime soon - he wants to balance the current classes in terms of PvE first.

That being said, it doesn't guarantee everything will be sugar and rainbows. Just means they are aware of the importance of balance and don't need to be told about it.

In the end, we're just going to have to see what we get and give the proper feedback after we try things out.

[Ferth]

I am actually more excited for the impending class balances than I am for any of the scant information they've shared about jobs.

I can't really say jobs should be done this way or not done this way... but when I first read the blueprint for battle changes and the tiny snippet about introduction of jobs I immediately thought of something more grandiose than one job per class that may or may not fit well with it.

I'd guess I'm not alone there... Granted we have had little information on jobs, but what information we have had doesn't fill me with confidence. I'm hoping jobs have been delayed because of our feedback. And if not I'm glad there is still time for our feedback to effect it's implementation.

My issues with bard and ranger are more reflective of my disappointment in the decision to not have any progression required for jobs... people can level archer and then suddenly from doing one quest they can do something completely unrelated to archery.

If they want to allow bards to use bows, that's fine. That's not what has me upset. But archers shouldn't suddenly become accomplished bards at the drop of a hat.

[Drogo]

Ehhh, I'm pretty sure that's a harp, since the dev clearly said that it's a bow that transforms.

[Galliano]

Look at the arrow. Now at the maybe-harp. Now back at the arrow. And back at the maybe-harp.
I'm on a chocobo.

Laughing my FA off!

[AsterBarnivere]

It's a harbow, now be quiet and use that *spongebob pose* IMAGINAAAAAATION!