Parry Scaling

[Zdenka]

Parry is a bad stat. The amount you need per increase us staggering (and fifty I belive it was around 100 rating per one percent)

It was 17 parry = +1% parry rate at L50, not 100. It believe though it was 86 DEX/STR was +1% mitigation, which is gone now in HW. This means some Dreadwyrm pieces added nearly 3% parry rate per piece... it was just entirely unneeded.

After I posted that I remembered that the tower shield was only a ilvl148 compared to the 180 of Law shield. So the comparison was off by a lot, freakin 2am posts. If hive shield is blocking for 28% that's a pretty big difference in 10ilvls. I know for a fact the 170 law shield was blocking 19-20% dmg which is the same amount blocked by the upgraded 180 shield. I don't see why going up another 10 ilvls suddenly gives you 8-9% increased block strength. We will have to see how it plays out it's going to be a long road for sure.

The Hive Shield has 200 more block value than the law shield, its a different shield type. The law shield should activate more often, for a lesser amount but due to Bulwark and Sheltron the lower activating, stronger, Hive shield is the better choice. And it doesn't eat as many parry procs. It has almost NOTHING to do with the ilvl difference.

[Faytte]

On parry: 17 per--my mistake. Still unneeded--wonder what it is now at 60? Likely closer to 19 or 20 per.


On Shields: Kite Shields vs Tower Shields/Great Shields. The Law Shield (Despite the name) is a kite shield with balanced block/strength. Moving from the lower tier to upper (10 levels) nets you 15 to both block and rate values. Logically, this is porportional with the shields base values---i.e a buckler will have gained much more rate than strength in 10 ilevels, and towers vice versa.

I imagine if we had a 170 tower (like the hive shield) and it went to 180, you would see roughly 40ish % less increase to rate (about 8 or 9) and 60% in strength (closer to 22 or so). That would seem to get the i170 shield stepped up to the Hives 190.

Now the 170 weapon blocks for 19-20, the 180 blocks for (what ive seen) 20 or 21. If that is the case then you can guess every 10-19 i levels on a kite shield=1% and likely just over half of that being needed on a tower shield.

In short? Shields are good, will get better with i levels.

[Gyson]

In all honesty, I'm glad they nerfed it. Because the more effective Block Rate you got for a PLD, the more Parry lost it's value.

Instead, I'm hoping they make Block and PArry stats more useful now and put block rate as a stat onto some gear.

That was DRKs and WARs look for gear with PArry and PLDs look for Block.

But that's not going to happen. So, realizing that, all this means is that a borderline useful stat is now even less useful.

Why should we be glad about that?

The only reason I can see anyone being happy about this change is because they didn't believe in using parry anyway, and now this change makes them more comfortable with that decision.

[Xenosan]

The only reason I can see anyone being happy about this change is because they didn't believe in using parry anyway, and now this change makes them more comfortable with that decision.

Indeed. Actually the vindication is more that SE finally addressed Parry, due to it being a carry-over 1.0 mechanic.

The proof is in the LOW BLOW reset and REPRISAL proc for DRK, plus the RAW INTUITION CD. They've finally address Parry by giving it use outside just passive RNG mitigation. I think it was the right thing to do. If SAMURAI is the next tank job, I look forward to how they incorporate Parry into it's CD/Proc'ing abilities as well. They made the right move IMO.

[Giantbane]

Indeed. Actually the vindication is more that SE finally addressed Parry, due to it being a carry-over 1.0 mechanic.

The proof is in the LOW BLOW reset and REPRISAL proc for DRK, plus the RAW INTUITION CD. They've finally address Parry by giving it use outside just passive RNG mitigation. I think it was the right thing to do. If SAMURAI is the next tank job, I look forward to how they incorporate Parry into it's CD/Proc'ing abilities as well. They made the right move IMO.

How is parry rating helped by raw intuition? Raw intuition is 100% parry regardless of what your actual parry rating is. While raw intuition is active, your parry rating is doing absolutely nothing. Parry can be interesting for DRK due to low blow and reprisal, like you said. But parry in 3.0 seems like it's just flat worse for WAR/PLD than it was in 2.0. I don't see how that's improving anything.

[Gyson]

Indeed. Actually the vindication is more that SE finally addressed Parry, due to it being a carry-over 1.0 mechanic.

The proof is in the LOW BLOW reset and REPRISAL proc for DRK, plus the RAW INTUITION CD. They've finally address Parry by giving it use outside just passive RNG mitigation. I think it was the right thing to do. If SAMURAI is the next tank job, I look forward to how they incorporate Parry into it's CD/Proc'ing abilities as well. They made the right move IMO.

How is parry rating helped by raw intuition? Raw intuition is 100% parry regardless of what your actual parry rating is. While raw intuition is active, your parry rating is doing absolutely nothing. Parry can be interesting for DRK due to low blow and reprisal, like you said. But parry in 3.0 seems like it's just flat worse for WAR/PLD than it was in 2.0. I don't see how that's improving anything.

What Giantbane said. I mean.. I'm not sure what my reaction is supposed to be here. Yay for Darknights?

Meanwhile, for me (prior to the expansion) my parry and block both offered similar levels of damage reduction, and between the two of them I was enjoying ~30% physical damage reduction most of the time. Now I'm not. So.. as someone who was happily not avoiding the parry stat like it was the plague, why should I be excited about this again?

[Xenosan]

I think you're confusing my use of the word Parry. I was referring to the mechanic itself - not the secondary stat 'Parry.'

But parry in 3.0 seems like it's just flat worse for WAR/PLD than it was in 2.0. I don't see how that's improving anything.

I wasn't making an argument of otherwise. It's always been meh (both the mechanic and the stacking of it's secondary stat), and continues to be so - except now "Parry" (the mechanic - not the secondary stat) has been incorporated into other abilities. RAW INTUITION takes that sub-par mechanic and actually creates a usable mitigation CD out of it. Getting RI 100% with no Parry secondary stat necessary - I don't see how that's something to complain about. CRIT/DET/SKSP <can I have it?>

So.. as someone who was happily not avoiding the parry stat like it was the plague, why should I be excited about this again?

There's a reason tomestone Tank gear was swimming in ACC and PARRY throughout 2.x, where-as Raid loot focused DET/CRIT/SKSPD.

The former is for Progression - but if you know the instance and it's mechanics - Parrying was just redundant mitigation procs - blocking mostly pillow damage, causing over-healing, and unreliable for when it matters. You're on top of your game with your CDs, and Healers on top of theirs - Parry is of little to no use. At least now there's 'other' ways Parry (the mechanic) keeps relevant.
As for stacking the secondary - nope never understood that outside blind runs and progression.

[Gyson]

The former is for Progression - but if you know the instance and it's mechanics - Parrying was just redundant mitigation procs - blocking mostly pillow damage, causing over-healing, and unreliable for when it matters. You're on top of your game with your CDs, and Healers on top of theirs - Parry is of little to no use.

I have never found that to be the case. But then, it depends on what you spend most of your time doing each play session.

Also, one of these days people will realize that most players are not in a static, nor spending all their online time running content that statics would be interested in. Most of the time you are stuck with reactionary healers, and in groups where people are rarely "on top of their game", and in those situations parry was very helpful. When I'm doing a speed run with X mobs swinging at me and the healer is barely keeping me standing despite blocks and parries reducing the damage on a majority of their attacks by 30%, you can bet I'm not thinking parry was a waste at that point.

Honestly, I have never found myself in a situation where I wasn't happy to have incoming damage reduced even more. Nor have I ever found myself in a situation where a bit more DPS from me would have won the day (although I have been in plenty where a bit more reduction and health on me have been the difference between wiping and not). And this perfect world where healers aren't ever over-healing tanks who shied away from parry is likely more fantasy than reality.

[Kosmos992k]

Hmmmm... this is kind of sad. Parrying and blocking are to me precisely the point of sword and board tanking. Rather than nerfing it, they could instead have made it more relevant, and emphasizing the importance of agility/dexterity for a good tank. It makes sense to scale the chance of blocking and parrying based on Dex, and scaling the amount of damage blocked/parried based on Strength. that way you could adjust your build to go for more active mitigation with block and parry, rather than stacking more HP.

Someone clarify for me here, but it rather seems that parry is pointless and block is 100% based on gear now, so stat builds have zero importance outside of choosing whether to stack Vit or Str. Kind of a bummer for anyone who put effort into a parry/block build - such as it was.

But given that Paladin's relic is based on battle dance materia, nerfing parry to make it irrelevant feels like a real kick in the teeth to the Paladin. Since that whole combination of skill with blade and shield is ecplicitly stated in the lore of the Paladin...

Known as paladins, these men and women marry exquisite swordplay with stalwart shieldwork to create a style of combat uncompromising in its defense.

...wonder what it should say now.
Were the folks balancing the jobs high or something? Bard has been pretty well rewritten away from the constant movement that was core to it.. And here core aspects of Paladin are getting disassembled. Perhaps it's time to go play DPS for a while and let the shortage of Tanks convince SE to fix things.

[Zfz]

One thing mentioned in the thread is that tomestone gear has lots of parry because it is for progression, and raid gear has little parry because you don't need it anymore.

Sadly, if we compare AlexN gear and Law gear, we realize that from 170-190, the three sets only differ in 2 places: the chest piece gets parry at 190, and the legs piece looses its parry at 190. Since chest and legs get the same item budget, you basically have no change unless you downgrade your chest piece to wear 180. In every other slot, if parry is there in 170, it is there in 190. So this theory of the itemization proving that parry is only needed for progression is automatically busted with current itemization.

Now someone's gonna say "lol, AlexN is trivial, real progression comes with AlexS."

Yes, but when the next set of floors of Alexander come out in 3.2, aren't you gonna wear AlexS gear? Isn't that going to be progression? And if AlexS gear has very little parry, it also busts the notion that itemization gives you parry for progression.

Still, I'm a little worried that there has been absolutely no actual test data to tell us exactly how much parry % we get per point. There has been no actual test data telling us exactly how much dps we gain per point of crit/ss/det in 3.0, yet people are already writing off parry and hailing dps stats as the holy grail.

Personally, before I see actual data (remember back in 2.0 when people said 100 parry per 1% of parry rate and everyone believed it until better results came up proving it was a fraction of that, giving you 8 times the parry % you thought you had?), I'm going to wear iLv and take whatever parry that comes, knowing that our healers prefer it this way.