Dev, please confirm MCH buffs before Alexander release?

[Zyrusticae]

Melee DPS and casters lose a lot of their dummy number when dealing with these things called raid mechanics, while Bards, historically, do not.

Casters, yes.

Melee DPS... are we playing the same game?

[LittleArrow]

Are any of the numbers thrown around from real combat, or do people still honestly think that a dummy-parse is indicative of actual combat performance? Melee DPS and casters lose a lot of their dummy number when dealing with these things called raid mechanics, while Bards, historically, do not. Machinist, as a new alternative to Bard, was balanced with that in mind. If you're between 800-900 DPS during an actual encounter, that's nothing to be ashamed of.

Every coil / endgame group I've been in has compensated for melee DPS and from what I've been told, their numbers rarely suffer due to fight mechanics - B/c most of the fight mechanics are on the ranged or both ranged and melee. These numbers that I've been reading in reddit come from dummies and in fights. Never have I seen ranged on par with melee in a fight unless it was a blm - now smn. Again, you don't even have to trust the parse numbers. There are dozens of posts explaining the lacking potency of these just reading off of tooltips and taking into consideration weapon damage and armor compared to other dpsers.

And when being told we're on par with offtanks while other damage dealers are doing far more than an off tank, yes, there is much to be ashamed of imo.

This nonsense is why parsers need to remain illegal and why that feature needs to be taken out of PF. We've gone through enough of this job discrimination in FFXI. We don't need it here.

Parsers aren't the problem. I only see parsers being discussed in reddit and the forums - areas where the majority of players don't go. This discrimination isn't from a third party program, this is from the fact that it's obvious mchs and brds slow down parties, significantly. This discrimination would still be in effect, I imagine, with or without parsers. More and more I hear people saying comments that refer to how slower parties are with mchs and brds in them. Sure, some of those could be bad players, and I'm sure there are many. However, with all of the reports coming in, surely not all of them can be so.

[DSWBeef]

GOt my support, just got mch to 60 and throughout leveling I felt weak AF.

[heit]

My support as well. I was really looking forward to this class and to see it under-perform against tanks is a little disheartening.

[DSWBeef]

Well I finally managed to get through Bismarck EX (and I did just fine on DPS), but I get to Ravana only to find so called 'practice' groups pulling this:



This is the new normal and why if MCH is going to get adjustments, it needs them fast.

The unmarked DPS, for reference, is another DRG.


Here's another one not much long after, to show this isn't a fluke. I think I'm just going to catalog instances of this happening within this thread from now on, because it's pretty conclusive proof there is a devleoping wariness in the community about MCH:

This is very disheartening....

[KyteStones]

my god are the machinists really that bad? My buddy just got his to 50 last night and his DPS is amazing. His rotation is fast fluid and does a ton of damage. Coupled with the Astrologian with the spear and arrow card draws the classes speed is immensely faster than any other class so far. You have to know the rotation inside and out. This is a class you can't halfass at all as there is no slacking once the rotation starts. You need to be on top of your game. As for the cool downs yeah I can agree, but as for saying their DPS is complete garbage where they won't be in raids, you are sorely mistaken OP.

As for this post:

Well I finally managed to get through Bismarck EX (and I did just fine on DPS), but I get to Ravana only to find so called 'practice' groups pulling this:



This is the new normal and why if MCH is going to get adjustments, it needs them fast.

The unmarked DPS, for reference, is another DRG.


Here's another one not much long after, to show this isn't a fluke. I think I'm just going to catalog instances of this happening within this thread from now on, because it's pretty conclusive proof there is a devleoping wariness in the community about MCH:

I have to disagee with it. So groups on the PF didn't add the machinist to the roles. When I used to farm Levi EX, it was 1 pld, 1 sch, 1 bard, and 5 blms. I never changed it because I found a system that worked that was far more efficient with Foe Requiem and 5 BLM's blasting the hell out of everything than worrying about a monk or dragoon wasting time running from spume to spume losing dps, or a summoner who didn't know how to use his class properly. Not to mention Manawall and manaward to lessen damage so we could run 1 tank 1 healer. People find a party compilation that works for them and stick with it.

[Cabalabob]

Honestly I think potency buffs would solve the issue, but I mean REALLY big buffs. The fact is, ammo doesn't really give us any major benefits, just +20 potency, the 100% proc on our combo is something we should have by right.

I could understand not having a 100% proc if our moves were insanely OP, like slug shot 400 potency, clean shot 500 potency. But they're not, they are weaker than not only a DRG's combo, but a paladin's combo!

I think ammo should be overhauled, so either: ammo doubles our potency on weaponskills and our combo be made 100% proc naturally. or ammo only increases our proc to 100% and our weaponskills get an insane potency buff naturally like described above.

[LittleArrow]

-snip-

No offense, but you basically just told us nothing. What is your friend's rotation? How do you know his dps is good? Do you have recorded numbers? Have you compared your friend with other dps? What gear is he wearing? What was the case in which you recorded / saw his dps?

You're speaking for your friend, but you're not saying anything but he's great and everyone else don't know what they're doing. There's an entire community that's studying this class that begs to differ with you, and I'm sure would like to be enlightened by your friend, not your observations.

Sorry, I know this sounds tough, but you're coming in here telling us we don't know what we're doing, provide no evidence or a rotation to test out for ourselves and say you and your friend (who's not at level cap) know more about this problem than a collective community.

[KyteStones]

-snip-

The only thing I know about his rotation is when he calls for cards that I draw from my Astrologist that buff in to doing better DPS. Do I record his numbers? Who doesn't run ACT these days. Am I going to post them here? No way would I risk such a ban considering these are for "private use" accounting to the comments about it.

From what I've recorded with him at level 60 in 145 gear, he out DPS'ed a monk level 60 better gear, a dargoon in much much better gear, and one black mage he completely destroyed in the DPS meters which didnt make any sense to me. The class might be crap on its own, but coupled with the proper support roles to enhance the buffs make the class much better.

On his own with out the ASt buffs, he's suffered DPS immensely to which I assumed was the point in having the AST and the MCH in the same patch. The need of working together.

[LittleArrow]

-snip-

First of all, I'm not asking you to incriminate yourself. I'm trying to understand how you can say your MCH friend does enormous DPS without any logical proof (nevermind numbers).

Ok so he out DPS'd a mnk at 50. Back in 2.0 gear Monks and Drgs were doing around 600+ dps if I'm not mistaken. Currently, MCHs at 60 are recording 800-900 for their DPS. Mnks and Drgs are currently recording 1200-1400 dps consistently, at the same item level, in dungeons. If your level 50 MCH out dps's MNKs at 60, please report back here.

Your friend did this buffed. So basically, for us to do damage, we have to have a pocket AST to buff us at all times, babysit us with their cards regardless of the other dps in the party. Still, even in the best of circumstances, that's pretty unrealistic for MCH's to sustain considering other DPSers can pull much higher numbers without mentioning the need of an AST.

Whenever you get a chance, it'd be great to ask your friend's rotation so players can test it out.