Let's talk Wanderer's Minuet, please. Performance and expectations.

[Edellis]

WM is really polarizing for people, both Bard players and people who haven't even touched the skill, ironically. I've seen people argue that it's useless, and others argue that it's pretty good. People seem to use parse numbers alone to be convinced of whether or not it's a good ability, a fact I find somewhat confusing given the way the stance mechanic functions.

So here are the general Pros/Cons of the stance

- Autoattack is about 20% of Bard DPS.
- No more (or less) GCD weaving
- Interruptions or movement hits DPS very hard, where in 2.0 it did nothing to it.
- 3 second activation time

Here are the practical benefits:

+ 20% damage boost to all abilities
+ Minuet-specific high-potency attacks

The general issue seems to be centered around the fact that Minuet's 20% damage boost does not offset (or sufficiently offset) the loss of Auto Attack and uninterruptable damage. This is solidified when people parse Minuet DPS and notice it's only marginally higher, or possibly lower.

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What the stance seems to do
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Since i'm playing Bard now, i've decided to just test some things about the practical pros and cons of the stance.

To make a long story short, i've been playing Bard under the assumption that Wanderer's Minuet is not a replacement for the 2.0 Bard playstyle, and instead intended as a mechanic for situational DPS increase.

This is what i've come to generally notice

1) WM's 20% damage boost does not offset Auto Attack damage. Initial Barrage+DoT burst aside, it is a DPS decrease...only if you use it as a playstyle replacement. At level 52-53, you are not intended to stay in this stance and experience long-term DPS gains. You WILL be weaker.


2) Empyreal Arrow is likely designed specifically to offset Auto Attack damage to make full-time turret usage of the stance more-or-less DPS efficient compared to offstance, while providing an amount of initial burst to generally make whatever shortcomings irrelevant on most shorter encounters.

***Consider that a weapon with 3.0 Auto Attack delay is around 100 potency...generally. Under this condition, at a minimum, Wanderer's Minuet is missing 500 potency worth of damage every 15 seconds. Empyreal Arrow has its own recast timer at 15 seconds affected by skillspeed, and is 240 potency, roughly half of what you would be missing. The extra 20% from your skills should now be providing enough to offset the missing damage in the long run, considering you use Empyreal arrow whenever it's up.

Factoring critical makes this even more apparent. Any of the 1-5 AAs that crit will drive your missing damage up, but a single EmpArrow crit dumps all at once. There's some RNG at work here but generally this means Emp Arrow crits are very very good for helping the AA loss.

3) Iron Jaws shifts your rotation around a bit, but ultimately it's just another way to make sustained usage of Minuet more DPS efficient, by chopping off a 60 potency GCD cast (Windbite) in place for another one.

4) Haven't gotten Sidewinder yet, but again, this can only ever serve to increase your DPS. Now you can replace a 60 potency Windbite with a 350 potency strike instead.


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More things to consider when you theorycraft Minuet
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1) Skill Speed now affects DoT damage.

2) Empyreal Arrow's CD is affected by skill speed. Auto Attack is not.

3) Determination now has a weaker effect on Auto Attack damage.

4) Barrage will always be more efficient when used with Empyreal Arrow.

5) Interruptions murder DPS, but Bloodletter and Blindshot can be done while running. Considering there are stronger abilities to be using in this stance, I don't think saving one for moving is all that condemning.

6) 3.0 second reactivation time is also not condemning. There isn't a primal or raid boss in the game that doesn't allow you this breathing room.


So, in a nutshell, it's a mechanic. Not a buff stance.

Lv52 -- highly situational use. Good for barrage bursts and maybe DoTs, but most of your time should still be in Off-stance else you'll get DPS deficit.

Lv54 -- Very high burst with CDs, otherwise ranges from equal to situational, with total DPS leveling out more-or-less equal to off-stance damage when CDs are down.

Lv56 -- In long encounters, the stance should now have tools for superior DPS output under most conditions. Stance switch for trouble moments.

Lv60 -- Same deal, Minuet rotation should always be higher than off-stance. From here it's just knowing when to attempt to turret with it without being interrupted.

[Ricdeau]

I can't comment on the state of bards so I'm not going to weigh in your post much, but I did want to point out one error in your post that I saw. Determination's effect on auto attacks was reduced, but not removed.

From the patch notes:
"The effect of determination on auto-attacks has been reduced."

Carry on! I'm interested in hearing people's views on the current standing of bard.

[Edellis]

I can't comment on the state of bards so I'm not going to weigh in your post much, but I did want to point out one error in your post that I saw. Determination's effect on auto attacks was reduced, but not removed.

From the patch notes:
"The effect of determination on auto-attacks has been reduced."

Carry on! I'm interested in hearing people's views on the current standing of bard.

Thanks, i'll update that.

[awesomeuno]

It's pretty drastic, the damage of auto attacks difference. non WM, my autos are hitting for right at 300 damage, while my heavy shot is hitting for 600. i had to double check it, but my autos are now doing half as much damage as my 150 potency attack...maybe it's a good thing barrage got changed...

[Ricdeau]

No problem, I support a nice objective discussion. Hopefully it stays on track.

[Arkenne]

Im not a BRD myself, but Im curious about Windbite and Venomous Bite refreshing skill...
I've heard you can use it outside of Wanderer's Minuet, but if you can only use it while on the stance... isn't it still 3 seconds cast time of minuet a lot less time than shooting these skills individually for reappliance? Its also good for the BRD's TP... and the DoTs would be boosted by the Skill Speed AND Minuet...

As in, casting Minuet 4 seconds before the DoTs run out, then refresh them at the last second with Iron Jaws, then immediately casting and Empyreal Arrow and throw a Sidewinder before going off stance O_o?
This way you would be using Minuet about once every 15 seconds... which fits with Empyreal Arrow.

[Warlyx]

Iron jaws can only be casted while on WM.

and not worth casting WM (3s) + iron jaws (1.5s) just to refresh dots

[Arkenne]

iron jaws (1.5s)

So it HAS a casting time... I see...
But, what about the refreshed DoTs? Are they boosted by Minuet if they were casted out of it but refreshed by Iron Jaws?

[Wigett]

I have been trying to use WM and seems to do better for trash AOE, then keep it off , start of a boss fight , for burst, then .. Off. so I can run and gun.

[Edellis]

So it HAS a casting time... I see...
But, what about the refreshed DoTs? Are they boosted by Minuet if they were casted out of it but refreshed by Iron Jaws?

Iron Jaws is just a regular skill. It's basically Poison Arrow (100 potency), except instead of applying a DoT, it just refreshes what's already there. Whatever buffs you have on at the time of using jaws is what gets carried onto the DoTs (so yeah, the refresh will get the 20%). The main draw of the skill is that you don't have to use Windbite more than once while in stance.

For instance, if you used unbuffed DoTs and your timers are ending, and you burn all buffs and use jaws, the DoTs will be buffed for the reset duration.

I wouldn't really waste time casting Wanderer's Minuet just to use Iron Jaws though, unless i was unable to attack my target while doing it. It's not worth it unless you plan on staying in the stance for some time afterward.


I usually DoT up a few enemies before AoE pulls to get the RoD procs going, and Iron Jaws helps maintain that too.