The completely REASONABLE changes to the Dark Knight job thread

[Xenosan]

I hope I am not misunderstood. I wasn't implying DRK can't. Only that I've felt a noticeable discrepancy. As to what it is I can't say.

I only ever cleared Odin via PLD using tank swaps (was a first day one-and-done clear, hadn't gone back since). So I don't know if it's different now with over-gearing allowing PLD solo tank (since I'm doing DF I didn't suggest solo tanking /w DRK to PUG, we swapped every 3 sannetales).

Mechanics > everything else. I alluded to this talking about the Ramuh PUG (we probably would have cleared if we had time for another attempt, got very close a few times). Every Vote Abandon coil/trial was due to one or more players refusing to abide mechanics, failing dodges, or any of the other typical experiences of Duty Finder. It was never a, "Bleh, a DRK. We lose," vibe.

But again there is a discrepancy I've felt. Whether it could be the passive EHP bonuses of a shield, a better familiarity with PLD, the additional micro required with DRK, or the utter gimp-ulation that happens when DRK blows their MP management.. who knows.

I like the extra micro of DRK, I like having control of our pseudo cool downs, 'cheating' their intended recast. But if it's a high risk == high reward paradigm, I'm not feeling the higher reward. (In fact my greatest appreciation for DRK at the moment comes from a glitch in a certain CD that will likely be patched soon)

No T13 for this plebian, but if PLD can handle it without any magic resistance up, I'd assume DRK can with just 15%. I've yet to feel the necessity of buffed Dark Mind except for a few occasions, and even then I don't think it amounted to much more than a once-in-a-trial relief for healers, or plain out getting over-healed.

Now if Dark Mind, when buffed with Dark Arts, granted +15% magic resistance up to self and all nearby party members, that I think is credible utility making DRK preferable. OT capable and great synergy with Delirium.

[rogandiamond]

1. Remove Grit from GCD and possibly stop the combo break. - This is the biggest QoL improvement for micro-management.
2. Soul Devourer should give a 100% hp return while under Grit, 50% outside of.
3. Under Dark Arts, Dark Passenger should not use the full mana requirement.
4. A possible Piety boost/regen? I know we have blood weapon + price but only one of those can be realistically used in a raiding environment if you end up being MT. Maybe a Dark Arts - Dark Mind can give you a piety regen during the duration as well?

[Aeliott]

Well, Sword Oath and Shield Oath are on GCD too, but Defiance exists which is much better and doesn't break combos if I recall. But also is it _really_ worth dropping Grit just for Blood Weapon? Apart from the chunk of MP lost when you put Grit back up again, every other MP restore they have is plenty imo. It burns through TP if you keep going with the attack speed boost. And I don't know...apart from crappy unthreatening trash I just don't see why it's such a big deal to stance dance while main tanking. Maybe people are just too trigger happy with Dark Arts?

[MidnightS]

I'd like to see the MP cost of Grit removed. PLD and WAR can switch in and out of their tank stances as the fight demands with impunity. Why can't DRK do the same?

[Launched]

I'd like to see the MP cost of Grit removed. PLD and WAR can switch in and out of their tank stances as the fight demands with impunity. Why can't DRK do the same?

Sword Oath and Shield Oath are both on GCD and cost mana. Defiance/Deliverance are off GCD but have 10s cooldowns, and swapping to Defiance doesn't really give you the increased mitigation until you get healed to full.

[ValkyrieL]

Raw intuition + awareness + healer on flank/back = lol.

[Ditto]

Well, Sword Oath and Shield Oath are on GCD too, but Defiance exists which is much better and doesn't break combos if I recall. But also is it _really_ worth dropping Grit just for Blood Weapon? Apart from the chunk of MP lost when you put Grit back up again, every other MP restore they have is plenty imo. It burns through TP if you keep going with the attack speed boost. And I don't know...apart from crappy unthreatening trash I just don't see why it's such a big deal to stance dance while main tanking. Maybe people are just too trigger happy with Dark Arts?

DPS. Staying out of Grit gives a Drk some crazy damage, not quite as much as a Warriors, but nonetheless, outside of Grit, and with Blood Weapon, they can pull some nice DPS.

There is 0 reason however to ever drop Grit for the sole sake of recovering MP. Unless on fights like Ravana EX for example where the boss will stop attacking you during his long casts such as the preludes, but really you'd be dropping Grit anyway to do as much damage as you can while he's taking extra damage. It's more so about DPS than Mp recovery.

[Aeliott]

True, I guess I've only seen people talk about it terms of primarily MP regain till now - but it seems that ship has sailed! Makes sense DPS-wise for down time but PLD's have always had this issue too with Sword/Shield Oath right? Albeit without as much MP dependence.

[Ipkonfig]

^qft
Snip
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You can't compare running old content with DRK if you are between 51-60 and are not geared since the stat weights all shift when you hit 51, it might shift at 50 actually. I was playing my WAR just to see how Au Ra used an axe and I noticed my parries were about 5% less damage reduction than pre-HW.

Once you get full BiS for current content, I.E. all i180 currently, then run those old instances and see how you do. In reality I can't think of anything in any of those fights that I would have issues with as DRK. DRK has the same basic CD rotation as PLD for dealing with burst. I would actually like DRK in T9 for Bahamut's Claw DA+Dark Dance would always be up for it. Titan is just mechanics if a tank is having issues then he's just a bad tank. Odin hit hard regardless of what you did, even as PLD it was rough for zero reward.

As far as paper-stat discussions.. That's how they design the classes to begin with so I think we need to look at that paper to see what they want for the class.

Thus far there hasn't been a single instance where I felt that I was to squishy, even when I was fresh i145 stepping into the new content, and as I gear it only gets easier and easier. I also run with a WHM who enjoys DPSing and she hasn't changed since I started tanking as DRK.

I'd like more group utility. I know that Reprisal's debuff stacks on a boss with Storm's Path but I still haven't seen proof that the damage reduction actually stacks. If it does it's pretty amazing synergy for DRK/WAR. With the 66% up-time on Reprisal it would be a total 16.7% damage reduction on everything the boss does over an entire fight.

As far as DRK changes I don't know if anything is really NEEDED right now, we don't know what's coming in Alex. DRK's are already tanking Rav Ex with zero issues and that's the current highest content.

I'd like what I listed previously. On Delirium Blade either % Magic Vuln Down, or reduce magic damage by 10%. If Magic Vuln is added I'd like Darkside to change all DRK damage to magic. Also dropping the evasion from Dark Dance, but making sure that Dark Dance maintains the average damage reduction it currently has (~25%) by upgrading the parry effects, rate and strength. I guess I'd like Shadow Wall to have an extra effect.. maybe something akin to the MCH's damage ability that absorbs damage and then applies it for 25% more, but instead put it on Shadow Wall where it absorbs the damage and when Shadow Wall expires you get a health buffer for a % of the damage taken.

[Hundred]

I think complaining about Delirium is short sighted. By the very reality of Ninja getting Dancing Edge when Warriors already have Storms eye, and that Drk and Monk but have Int down its not a question of if another class will get Str down, but when and who.
Delirium does what its supposed to do, if you have a monk you don't need to use it. If I have a Ninja who insists on keeping his Dancing edge up, then I don't need to Storms eye and just throw in another BB.

Reprisal requiring a parry to be used is honestly annoying as all hell, and the timer to use it doesn't help. Just remove the Parry requirement, there may be some paper math for why they did it this way (just seems like they wanted a Shield swipe like deal) but I don't need that kind of unreliability.

Darkside seems to degenerate about 2% of your maximum mana (So no Piety does not help this). While all the other costs are static. Were the enmity multipliers of Drk ever posted?