The completely REASONABLE changes to the Dark Knight job thread

[Hundred]

And Pld is missing Drks ability to cover magical damage. Not that Pld can't cover Magical, Drks just *better* at it.
This is a moot point, The two damage types are physical and magical, which is more relevant is based entirely on the encounters of the dungeon/raid/trial which is set case by case. For progression general mitigation is near irrelevant when we're tanking in Deliverance/Sword Oath/Gritless. Given the main 'competitive' content will be coming out next week, the relevancy of Phys and Magical going forward will be brought out then.

Drk dance isn't a mere 30% parry. Its 30% Parry, 20% evasion in proper useage, which achieves the same role of Bulwark as mitigation when attacked with high frequency especially in the context of a notably shorter CD.
Granted PLD is the stronger mitigation tank in general when it comes to phys due to having Shield. Drk isn't aiming to be as efficient as PLD passively, neither is warrior as both lack a shield to mitigate that passive advantage.

[Kaedan]

Drk dance isn't a mere 30% parry. Its 30% Parry, 20% evasion in proper useage, which achieves the same role of Bulwark as mitigation when attacked with high frequency especially in the context of a notably shorter CD.
Granted PLD is the stronger mitigation tank in general when it comes to phys due to having Shield. Drk isn't aiming to be as efficient as PLD passively, neither is warrior as both lack a shield to mitigate that passive advantage.

Only useful against trash mobs. Not against bosses and raid content. Dark Dance is a pretty worthless ability atm. Which is why I've suggested they change it to a damage absorption shield and the dark arts version adding damage reflection.

[Ditto]

While I understand WAR's with triple fell cleaves can do insane levels of damage, has anyone actually looked at the DRK numbers? They throw out a ton of high-potency abilities. Hell, spending 8 GCDs, the best case scenario for both attacks to launch a spiked Souleater or Fell Cleave, has the DRK a mere ~10 potency behind the WAR across all skills, and this is before factoring in Scourge, which crushes Fracture on potency per cast, Salted Earth, which the Warrior does not have an equivalent to, and Carve and Spit, which may as well serve as infuriate, which is only 50 potency behind an infuriate into fell cleave, but it is off the global cooldown.

The DRK is deceptive in its damage, but it is putting out a lot of it all the same.

War's damage buffs are what put them ahead in damage. Well, as well as the fact that they now have a way to restore their TP. Drk's have no damage buffs other than Darkside, which is nice and all, but doesn't quite compete with a skilled Warrior. Drk's can definitely do a lot of damage sure, but I feel the reason most people are pointing the damage difference out is because that is yet another reason someone may choose a War over a Drk.

I've seen all tanking classes, clear all the content currently available. The Alexander Raid isn't out yet, and that will be the real big test. However a lot of people are jumping to conclusions w/o submitting the proper data, and or performing proper testing to conclude why their <insert class> needs a buff, or changes.

It has been 5 days sense the official release, and 9 days since the early release. I think people just need to get their 170/180 gear sets, learn how to properly manage cool-downs, and perform correct dps/threat rotations. Then when Alexander we will see how the tanking classes stack up against one another.

But I feel a lot of the people complaining, or asking for buffs for any class, haven't really attempted to push their class to its limits, or actually put in the effort to really learn their class.

That is more than long enough for someone to understand the ins and outs of a class, especially people who tanked prior to Heavensward. I've been tanking since the start, as both a Paladin and a Warrior, and am now a Drk Main, with everything in the game currently cleared including Ravana EX, that of which I MT completely fine. Sure as hell cant solo tank it yet, but that's more due to it being a completely physical fight, and only having 2 reliable cd's for physical damage. One of which has an obnoxious cooldown for what it does.

But the "Everything can be done so stop whining" excuse is as old as Warriors. Just because a class can participate in a fight, and win that fight, doesn't revoke the right for anyone to voice their opinion on HOW that class performed during that fight. Drk has a very high skill cap, but no pay off in the end. Less damage than Warrior, less utility than Warrior, less mitigation than Paladin, and if the rumors of how Paladins are currently doing as much DPS as Warriors holds true, then we have less damage than Paladins as well. (Haven't been able to confirm this yet) We also have less utility than paladins, even in an OT position.

Their tanking style is very, very, very selfish, by the job itself. Though then again, it's hard to say whether their tanking style is selfish, or is just lacking, because enough selfishness in tanking can still help clear things. The lack of things however helps no one.

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On a side note, to a lot of these posts of people saying whatever:

Rampart = Shadowskin
Sentinel > Shadow Wall
Bulwark > Dark Dance
Dark Mind = ??? // I feel as though 15% isn't much at all, but it's low CD can justify that. I still only find it worth using however under the effect of Dark Arts.

- Carve And Spit is NOT worth using without Dark Arts, as it only deals a SINGLE 100 potency attack, and only replenishes an equivalent amount of MP a Syphon Strike would. Contrary to what the tooltip says, it only hits once, not 3 times. As for it's cooldown, I feel it could be reduced to something like 40 seconds. If no change in it's cooldown, then actually make the skill hit 'THREEFOLD' like the description is saying it does. FUnny how they fixed the Sole Survivor tooltip, yet left C&S untouched.

- Most tank busters ARE physical. Going from previous Raids/Primals, majority is physical. To say otherwise is just ignorance at it's finest. This doesn't mean that they will continue this trend, but as is, it is all we have to base things on. And at the moment, unless those tank busters are split about 46+ seconds apart from one another, a Drk will not be able to keep up with Physical tank busters. Parry is the absolute worse kind of mitigation to rely on next to dodge, and it just so happens that both Warriors and paladins can parry as well, on top of what they can already do.

- Sheltron is essentially a Paladins at demand, one hit Inner Beast. Inner Beast is a Warriors Inner Beast. Drk doesn't have one of these.

- Living dead is essentially Holmgang without the root, or the need to be in melee range. Although ours definitely does last longer, and is a hell of a lot less forgiving in the activation part than Holmgang is. It however does have the consequence of instant death if your healers are derping around, or have no idea that you are even under walking dead from the start.

It has a 300 second cooldown, vs. Holmgangs 180 seconds. To try counting Living Dead as a regular mitigation skill is plain stupid. It's your "Oh crap I'm going to die" button, nothing else. We all have one of these, Hollowed, Holm, and now Living Dead. Doesn't matter how they're used. In cases for example of eating Akh Morns solo, that is just an extra benefit of not being able to die for that duration. They are still your panic buttons.

- Storms Path > Reprisal, whether it is off GCD or not. It's a utility skill, the damage it does doesn't really matter, and in terms of being able to apply it immediately due to it being off GCD, I've not once yet met a decent Warrior who didn't know how to prime a rotation to apply path exactly when it is needed. In Turn 11 for example after killing the adds.

And if that really IS the argument, then seriously? Reprisal can 1) ONLY be used after you parry. 2) can ONLY be used within a very, very short window.

Skills like these, oGCD or GCD does not matter, they are utility, and if you're at least half decent as the job you're playing, you'll know how to prime your combos, and get what you need to get up, when it's needed. Reprisal on the other hand is locked behind RNG.

Drk dance isn't a mere 30% parry. Its 30% Parry, 20% evasion in proper useage, which achieves the same role of Bulwark as mitigation when attacked with high frequency especially in the context of a notably shorter CD.

I lol'd.

As many times as I've tanked Ravana EX (I do quite a lot actually), I've never once actually dodged anything that really mattered. If anything at all honestly. Hell I hardly feel any difference in my Parry when I have it up even. The Healers don't have to suddenly heal me any less than they already have.

It's a trash mob skill, only efficient when paired with passengers Blind during large pack pulls, outside of Blood Price.

[Kaedan]

War's damage buffs are what put them ahead in damage. Well, as well as the fact that they now have a way to restore their TP. Drk's have no damage buffs other than Darkside, which is nice and all, but doesn't quite compete with a skilled Warrior. Drk's can definitely do a lot of damage sure, but I feel the reason most people are pointing the damage difference out is because that is yet another reason someone may choose a War over a Drk.

We have Dark Arts, which boosts several skill's damage, so that can be considered a Damage buff skill too.

[Ditto]

We have Dark Arts, which boosts several skill's damage, so that can be considered a Damage buff skill too.

True, completely slipped my mind, but still doesn't quite put us on par with Warriors.

[Kiteless]

Also, our Dark Arts isn't even close to free, unlike WAR, who's damage increasing abilities not only come with little to no cost (Maim and Storm's Eye are completely free, and Berserk, if utilized correctly, only results in a little more than 2.5 seconds of real downtime) while also providing resources, while DRK's end up draining them further and limiting their options.

Additionally, one more skill comparison worth considering is Sole Survivor to Equilibrium (and kind of sort of to Clemency). Sole survivor featuring a usage requirement that makes it effectively useless for actually pulling out at clutch moments, and twice the cooldown of Equilibrium.

[Ditto]

Sole Survivor is more of a mercy stroke for us that is actually designed properly. Save for the long cooldown that is.

However, in fights where things do not spawn mobs or anything that actually dies, it's useless. In fights where things do die, you'd have to be in range to use it.

On demand burst heals with a lower CD are far, far, far more useful than Sole Survivor. Funny thing however is that usually when things die, you'll be taking less damage, and the healers heals will be able to keep your HP afloat easily. I find myself using it more for the MP than the HP.

Lets also not forget that it's restricted to 20%, while Equilibrium for example runs on 1200 Potency, which can be quite a big heal.

[ZanzhizExaverion]

Dark Arts - Blood Price - Gain TP when struck. Number can vary.

Dark Arts now allows the player to activate Reprisal without the Parry requirement. For off-tanking mostly.

[Ditto]

Dark Arts - Blood Price - Gain TP when struck. Number can vary.

Dark Arts now allows the player to activate Reprisal without the Parry requirement. For off-tanking mostly.

First one would be neat, but that would be useless when you're not tanking, which is often the time when TP becomes a problem.

Second one would be nice, but I feel like we shouldn't have to spend that much MP just to get Reprisal up. As OT doing damage should be our priority, and Dark Arts'd Souleaters is where most of our damage comes from. It'll really hurt to have to start spending 1.7k MP on Reprisal.

[Kydi]

Having only got DRK to 54, I am a bit limited in experience, but there are a few changes I would propose:

Reprisal - at present, this is a terrible ability to have for one of our key debuffs - the damage is great, but it's redundant unless MT. Rather than increasing the length of the debuff, I think this would be better served by being on the GCD and the parry requirement removed. The skill could be changed so that each parry or evade reduces the CD by 2 seconds. This would mean that you don't hurt yourself in reprisal usage if you use DA Dark Dance and get the evasion buff (although it will reduce your MP regen if you use at the same time as Blood Price) and could keep the debuff up around 66% of the time as off tank and probably around 80% as main tank.

Salted Earth - it is a little annoying that this is a ground target AOE. I sometimes find that as it is oGCD, I'll click the ground target and it won't place properly. I think this is a timing thing, but it's a bit clumsy. A suggestion would be that this is either a targeted AOE with a lingering effect, or a double-click/activate will automatically place it on your current target.

Blood Weapon - I would like to see a use for this in Grit. DRK already has a lot of abilities which need certain stance criteria in order to use, which I don't think is the case for the other tanks (certainly wasn't for PLD pre-expansion, not sure about WAR). I would suggest that the CD be increased by 15s and the ability be changed to be usable in Grit. I'd also change it to give a secondary effect. For Grit this would be a health leech, similar to Bloodbath. For non-Grit I would keep the current buff. Blood Weapon would then form a combined defensive/offensive CD based on stance.