The lens through which we must view DRK when discussing its balance and problems.

[Kiteless]

While there's been a lot of discussion regarding DRK's place at the moment, it all seems greatly unfocused (and I'm well aware of the irony of this thread's existence amidst that criticism). The problem here is that we have a lot of people looking at DRK from places and perspectives that aren't particularly important to the discussion of balance (for example, people talking about its abilities in 4 man dungeons as an indicator of DRK's strengths in upcoming endgame content are a big offender here). So before any of us continue, I feel it's important to establish exactly what is important to discuss here regarding DRK and its balance with the other tanking classes and the rest of the game.

DRK's role in a party
First and foremost, the Dark Knight is a tank. Which means that it's job is to control enemy aggression, and absorb and mitigate damage to ensure that the rest of the party can perform their roles. The DRK's viability in any group is predicated upon its ability to perform this role. Moreover, its value in this role is based upon not only its ability to perform this role to a bare minimum, but also its ability to do so without encroaching on the performance of others beyond an acceptable degree.

In other words, in pertaining to value, while a DRK might be able to barely clear a certain encounter, if a PLD or WAR can do the same without putting as much stress on their party, the PLD or WAR will always be a superior option, and DRK will be considered without value to a party, and avoided in all cases (WAR 2.0 syndrome). The exception here comes when DRK offers something that might be worth the trade off in efficiency from other classes.
In this case, the common argument might be for its (supposedly, although yet to be properly measured as far as I've checked) higher damage output as a main tank. However, if the extra work required by the other party members ends up exceeding the extra efficiency of the DRK's damage output, then once again, DRK is left in dispensable position. It does not matter how skilled the DRK is, or how well they're capable of optimizing their own performance; if the hard limits of the DRK as a class end up causing the rest of the party to have to make extra concessions for them, then the class is inherently without value.
This is not to say that teamwork should be discouraged, but rather additional teamwork without any additional benefit leaves zero incentive when presented with the existence of superior, less stressful alternatives.

Next comes the issue of usability. Should the DRK be lacking in the tools to complete any single fight that would be standard fair for a PLD or WAR, then either the class or the game itself is broken on a fundamental level, and absolutely must be corrected. That is to say, while there might be certain fights that prefer certain combinations of classes, there should be no single encounter where DRK is left unusable. If any class is to be considered unusable for any single encounter, it should be considered that they might as well be unusable for any and all encounters for the purpose of playability.

So, looking at the concerns for the balance of DRK as a class, there are a few things we need to considered:

1. Is it usable in all content? Can we take DRK into any given raid, trial, or dungeon, at any difficulty level, and have it function to a baseline level (baseline being completion)? If there is even a single instance where DRK is to be considered unusable for reaching this baseline level, then there is already a serious, glaring weakness with the class, or a serious, glaring issue with the design of the notable encounters themselves.

2. Does the DRK have the tools to complete content consistently without requiring more assistance than other classes sharing its roll might have? If not, does it have other unique utilities that make it worth the requirement of this extra assistance? If, even at the highest level of play, the DRK does not provide benefits worthy of the extra effort involved by the rest of its party in keeping it alive, then the DRK has no value in its role in comparison to its peers.

Of course, that's quite a mouthful, and doesn't even begin to cover the subject of off-tanking in much depth (something which, personally, I feel that DRK is even weaker at), but I feel that the above would be a good primer before beginning to actually make suggestions regarding the balance of the class.

[OPneedNerfs]

People like to think DRK isn't as good. What most don't realize is that as unreliable as it may be, Reprisal has it's place as the 2nd best debuff of all tanks.

People seem to forget that Reprisal STACKS with Warrior's debuff leading to a steady 10% and sometimes 20% reduction of ALL damage from a boss.

That includes AoEs whether they are avoidable or not. I don't know about you, but to me, that's pretty huge.

I'm going to put this out there: "DRK + WAR with DRK as MT will be the new meta for stable end-game raid farming"

Other combinations of tanks are highly focused on reducing damage taken only by the tank whereas I can see the combo of DRK + WAR having a permanent raid wide 10-20% mitigation from a boss's AoE.

[Launched]

People like to think DRK isn't as good. What most don't realize is that as unreliable as it may be, Reprisal has it's place as the 2nd best debuff of all tanks.

People seem to forget that Reprisal STACKS with Warrior's debuff leading to a steady 10% and sometimes 20% reduction of ALL damage from a boss.

That includes AoEs whether they are avoidable or not. I don't know about you, but to me, that's pretty huge.

I'm going to put this out there: "DRK + WAR with DRK as MT will be the new meta for stable end-game raid farming"

Other combinations of tanks are highly focused on reducing damage taken only by the tank whereas I can see the combo of DRK + WAR having a permanent raid wide 10-20% mitigation from a boss's AoE.

I really wouldn't want DRK anywhere near MT with its weak cooldowns. I'd much rather have a PLD somewhere for a 1.6k Divine Veil shield over a DRK MT for 10% reduction that isn't guaranteed.

[saber_alter]

I really wouldn't want DRK anywhere near MT with its weak cooldowns. I'd much rather have a PLD somewhere for a 1.6k Divine Veil shield over a DRK MT for 10% reduction that isn't guaranteed.

yeah, pld has all but earned it's place as "most stable tank ever. of all time."

DRK needs some re-balancing. the job is passable as it is now, but it's not on par with our axe and shield bearing equivalents.

[TheCount]

People like to think DRK isn't as good. What most don't realize is that as unreliable as it may be, Reprisal has it's place as the 2nd best debuff of all tanks.

People seem to forget that Reprisal STACKS with Warrior's debuff leading to a steady 10% and sometimes 20% reduction of ALL damage from a boss.

That includes AoEs whether they are avoidable or not. I don't know about you, but to me, that's pretty huge.

I'm going to put this out there: "DRK + WAR with DRK as MT will be the new meta for stable end-game raid farming"

Other combinations of tanks are highly focused on reducing damage taken only by the tank whereas I can see the combo of DRK + WAR having a permanent raid wide 10-20% mitigation from a boss's AoE.

That will make them quite useless indeed regarding that debuff if you happen to get two Dark Knights though, especially considering the offtank won't be able to get a proc if it's a single boss.

[Kiteless]

Yes, it is worth considering that a lot of value in a raid environment comes from consistency. If you can't get that parry at the right time, Reprisal is completely worthless.

[Hundred]

Drk has some RNG elements (like all the new classes?).Drk has 6 abilities dedicated to regenerating Mana (Blood Weapon, Blood Price, Syphon strike, Carve & Spit, Soul Survivor).

Cross out their similarities and ignore efficiency at whats similar for a second..
Pld has a Shield, Cover, Shelltron, Divine Veil, Clemency, Tempered Will,
Drk has Sole Survivor, Scourge, Dark Mind, Blood price and Plunge? Eh... Its all rather selfish. Hell Blood price (and Sole survivor?)doesn't even really count. More importantly their "Selfish aspects" are of questionable value? A lot of attacks have been physical which puts Dark mind into question. Scourge is dps, whatever. Sole Survivor is for adds not bosses. Plunge makes you a better tank?

As far as mitigation goes their only hard advantage is Dark Mind, many skills are dedicated to making their mana work lol or doing damage. Unless Drks DPS is *that* good or Dark Mind is that useful, probably hard to justify them other the others.

[Faytte]

If drk gains mitigation, it has to stand to lose damage and some of its aoe. Right now they excel DRAMATICALLY in many areas over both over tanks (certainly Paladin). If they begin to gain onto a paladins tankyness, then they need a rebalancing elsewhere. Dark Knight offense + aoe + more mitigation and utility would basically result in unbalance in the opposite direction. Keep that in mind when asking for buffs. This happened to some degree with the war rebalance--its was gain a little, give a little and since many DRKs never tanked seriously before, you should know that you guys are LEAGUES ahead of the other tanks in certain areas, so being behind in others makes sense on paper. I'm not saying you shouldnt gain more mitigation (I think you should) but you cant have your cake and eat it to. Paladin has next to no aoe and pathetic damage while main tanking compared to either tank, it gains mitigation and utility in return for that. War has damage and mitigation, but no group utility.

[BadRNG]

People seem to forget that Reprisal STACKS with Warrior's debuff leading to a steady 10% and sometimes 20% reduction of ALL damage from a boss.

Do you have any proof of this, I know both debuffs can be active but that doesn't mean it's actually working properly, have any tests been done to confirm?

If drk gains mitigation, it has to stand to lose damage and some of its aoe. Right now they excel DRAMATICALLY in many areas over both over tanks (certainly Paladin). If they begin to gain onto a paladins tankyness, then they need a rebalancing elsewhere. Dark Knight offense + aoe + more mitigation and utility would basically result in unbalance in the opposite direction. Keep that in mind when asking for buffs. This happened to some degree with the war rebalance--its was gain a little, give a little and since many DRKs never tanked seriously before, you should know that you guys are LEAGUES ahead of the other tanks in certain areas, so being behind in others makes sense on paper. I'm not saying you shouldnt gain more mitigation (I think you should) but you cant have your cake and eat it to. Paladin has next to no aoe and pathetic damage while main tanking compared to either tank, it gains mitigation and utility in return for that. War has damage and mitigation, but no group utility.

The thing is being the best aoe damage tank is a completely meaningless distinction, what fight does that actually matter? No one cares about performance in four mans, that is not and should never be relevant to the discussion. It's why it was fine that BLM got a single target buff despite being kings of aoe, because realistically that's not a very important skill on the majority of encounters.

Your last sentence is crazy though, WAR has no group utility? Storm's Path is the best tank utility in the game. Storm's Eye is icing on the cake.

[Xenosan]

The thing is being the best aoe damage tank is a completely meaningless distinction, what fight does that actually matter? No one cares about performance in four mans, that is not and should never be relevant to the discussion.

Quality of life. That's DRK's forte. Ground Placement DoT, a gap closer, a ranged AOE, and more oGCDs than a Dragoon can shake a spear at. Things PLD/WAR know they'll never have

But

Warrior has Slashing buff, Damage Down debuff (both 100% up-time), and absurd DPS.

PLD has better self mitigation, much unique party-wide support, and a STR Down debuff -- also 100% up-time (DRK Delirium INT-Down false equivalency responses incoming!).

DRK has QoL, but like AST, it is not fitting into optimized raid configurations as well as it should. With Tank/Healer roles, there's no middle road. Raids go with the best until over-gearing and Echo allow otherwise.