MCH completely useless

[Sylve]

Words

The ONLY thing you lose from Gauss Barrel is auto attack.
When you take off GB, you lose access to an entire 200 potency shot which also gains 20% damage from the Barrel, you lose damage on Lead Shot and pointlessly sacrifice 20% bonus damage on Slug and Clean since those are instant under Ammo effects.

Losing 185 damage (at 57 with a HQ54 gun because there is all of one 56 NQ gun on the MBs right now) per 2~ seconds is made up in spades by the boost to damage literally everything else gets, including Wildfire.

Trying to dance back and forth with Gauss Barrel causes you to lose a flat 2 shots due to the 3 second cast as well as any Autos you would have fired just doesn't make sense to me.
In a fight with extended periods of running, I can see dropping Gauss Barrel as a viable tactic to keep DPS up, but i cannot see how wasting 3 seconds every 20 seconds to put on GB for a Gauss Round is more DPS than simply staying in GB until movement gives you reason to take it off.

Also, yes I'm fully aware than the MCH/BRD weapons are a flat -6 compared to like level weapons for all other Jobs including tanks.

PS: Don't go trying to throw those Reddit parses around as "proof", as i pointed out last time, the test was flawed in that he only tested once per mode and for differing duration's.

[Ephier]

words

'-'. I assume you do not know the ins and outs of MCN dps. Let me enlighten you. Under the effect of rapid fire, gauss barrel is instant, there is no 3 second cast. So, while you are mid fight, you line up b4b, hawkeye, rapid fire, and wild fire. While the rapid fire is up you can go in to use gauss barrel for ricochet and gauss round, use the procs you gain from rapid fire, then drop it back off for 90s until the next rapid fire. This is not an argument, it is proven already gauss barrel for an entire fight is a dps loss, no gauss barrel at all is a dps loss. The optimal way to play MCN right now is rapid fire stance dancing.

http://puu.sh/iDkEm/8cf80d3afa.jpg
(using 160 for crit/det, dont need the acc from i180.)
Yours truly, the short lala MCN.

[Sylve]

Under the effect of rapid fire, gauss barrel is instant, there is no 3 second cast

This i did not know. Given how it states Weaponskills, i had assumed Gauss Barrel would not be included, so thanks for that.

[Asierid]

This i did not know. Given how it states Weaponskills, i had assumed Gauss Barrel would not be included, so thanks for that.

It works on everything, even mounting is instant. Tool tips lie until they are tested and proven. Look at WAR's Raw Intuition for an example...

That aside, yes, even healers out DPS MCH easily. Basing a job around 80% RNG procs (Which are not even that powerful when compared to BRD and the free BL resets) really isn't good gameplay and it never was. Reload/Ammo (And obviously Gauss) needs to be buffed if they are going to keep this route in order to make MCH feasible in a raid environment where people will be dodging mechanics/not dying and losing procs until they get used to the encounters.

[Sylve]

It works on everything, even mounting is instant. Tool tips lie until they are tested and proven. Look at WAR's Raw Intuition for an example...

That aside, yes, even healers out DPS MCH easily. Basing a job around 80% RNG procs (Which are not even that powerful when compared to BRD and the free BL resets) really isn't good gameplay and it never was. Reload/Ammo (And obviously Gauss) needs to be buffed if they are going to keep this route in order to make MCH feasible in a raid environment where people will be dodging mechanics/not dying and losing procs until they get used to the encounters.

Then as i was speculating to my FC since i saw the potencies, SE intentionally put our potencies at the lowest level so they could later buff the numbers if it proved too weak.
The mechanics of the class is incredibly fun to me, And although i sincerely doubt I'm being outdps'd by Healers when playing properly, if the numbers need to go up then they need to go up.
Not because the class is fundamentally broken, but rather because SE did not want to create a situation where everyone flocks to Machinist because it was blatantly overpowered.
I have a feeling the Astrologian may be in a similar boat.

Remember, Its far easier to buff than it is to nerf. Could you imagine if MCH was released in an OP state then nerfed, what the Forums would have been like? The rage would be intense. It'd be worse than the current crop of "OMG MCH is worthless!" threads ... Be a tad more amusing though.

[Ephier]

Snip.

Correct. When NIN was released the request for a nerf bat was unreal. Everyone complained about how broken they were, and yes they were at their time of release. Top DPS in the game, 0 resource issues and they got nerfed. While the nerf they received was barely a slap on the wrist a few NIN were unsettled by it. I believe releasing something underpowered and buffing it later is a much better course of action. Remove animosity instead of creating it.

[Keylus]

This i did not know. Given how it states Weaponskills, i had assumed Gauss Barrel would not be included, so thanks for that.

It's said that it's maybe a bug, you can instant cast anything (besides LB), that includes teleport/recall and summon your chocobo companion

[Viridiana]

Losing 185 damage (at 57 with a HQ54 gun because there is all of one 56 NQ gun on the MBs right now) per 2~ seconds is made up in spades by the boost to damage literally everything else gets, including Wildfire.

Not having played MCH at all, I can only comment on math. You're doing 185 on average with a 2.8 weapon? If we say the average GCD is somewhere around 2.45 to account for SS, then you need to be doing (2.45/2.8)*185 extra damage per GCD under Gauss Barrel in order for it to make sense using it. That's 161.875 *extra* damage that Gauss Barrel would need to give you every GCD for it to be worth the loss in AA damage, right? Extra damage from Gauss Barrel is 20%, 161.875 is 20% of 809.375. So, in a perfect world with no movement, you would need to be doing 809 damage per GCD, not including AA, before GB becomes worth it, based on your 185 average damage with a 2.8 weapon. And of course, Raging Strikes and Hawk's Eye can't help you reach this number, because they would also boost the 185 number.

[RiceisNice]

...

And I feel like you're underestimating just how much auto attacks do contribute to our overall dps. If you don't think reddit parsers are "proof" enough when they're straight up numbers, what would you even accept then? If I went out and auto attack a dummy right now, it's hitting for 300s on average. My Split shot hits for 550 on average, 660-680 with GB. Per GCD, thats a damage loss on each split shot.
Gauss would hit a little bit around 930 every 20 seconds, or 8 GCds. That's roughly 116 damage for that GCD spread over 20 seconds. 850 > 776-788

Granted this is just me taking raw numbers from my auto attacks and skilling then breaking it down by GCD, so I'm sure there something fundamentally wrong with looking at damage dealt from that perspective. But this is also my perspective from doing dungeons and bismark EX in general. I do more damage overall by using my GB exclusively for bursting and not keeping it on, nor should I get used to it becase they'll probably fix the rapid fire bug eventually.

[ClaireTagg]

Yep i agree.