Dark Knight a more moderate Discussion and Suggestion Thread

[Hypie]

While there are already like 4-5 Threads open i make another one because there are some Points that i can't stand in the others.

- Dreamy Suggestions
- Misinformation
- Use of Skills that are nearly Useless

Before you start like "lolol no bismarck/ravana ex skill you don't know sheet" remember that I don't need these Kills for figuring out that there is something really wrong with our new Tanking Job.

The Darkknight has some serious Issues that make im less attractive as a Tank than WAR/PDL. The biggest Impression i have is that the Developers didn't have any good Ideas at the End so they just added something so that we have the same amount of Skills like the others. And i feel a bit squishy =/ Precise Points are...

- Skill Bloath
- Useless Skills
- Skills that are just here because hey why not more Skills?
- Mana Costs

The Skills that are the most serious Issue are in my eyes:

- Dark Passenger
- Carve and Spit
- Abyssal Drain
- Dark Dance
- Living Death
- Salted Earth
- Reprisal

this looks a bit ridiculous but i will explain why i think these skills bring a serious problem for us.

First is the obivious Skill Bloath we get with all these Skills. Second is some are way to overpriced in the Mana Cost Section for their use.

Dark Passenger

Potency: 120 with Dark Arts 250 brings a Blind Debuff. Straight Line.

The biggest Problem i have with this Skill is his Blind. Bosses in Heavensward are all immun to Blind so its a wasted effect. It costs 2652 Mana on Level 60. A "fresh" Lvl 60 Dark Knight has a Manapool of 6930.

A 250 Potency skill costing like 25% of our Mana not including the continous Drain from Dark Side is just insane.

I would never use this Skill on Trash Mobs too because a) it's bad for Blood Price b) it's a Straight Line you will never hit everything until you run a bit away which costs some good Chunk of Life.

Suggestions:

Lower the Mana Costs. Give it a real Useful Effect.

Carve and Spit

And here we have a Skill thats just here, well....why not right? Carve and Spit has a 60 Sec Cooldown with a Potency of 450 when buffed up with Dark Arts and a laughable Potency of 100 without it. It regenerates exactly the same amount of Mana like Siphon Strike does (tested on Dummy).

Why would i use that skill when a beefed up Souleater has only 50 Potency Less and even heals me for around 700-900? It hits around 1kish while Warriors have Fel Cleave which hits around 1500 or even 3kish with a Crit. And Warriors can stancedance this Fel Cleave around all 20-25 Seconds, while we are stuck with a 450 Potency Skill with a Cooldown of a whole damn Minute.

Suggestions:

- Reduce the Cooldown to 30 Seconds
- add 250-300 Potency

Abyssal Drain

This is a short one. You pay 2740 Mana for a lousy Aoe Dmg Heal that does like 250-300 Heal per Mob. Thats around 1K from 3-4 Mobs. They hit you that Hard with 2 autoattacks...wasted Mana in my Eyes.

Suggestions:

- Lower the Mana Costs
- Make it Heal more....

Dark Dance

Dark Dance gives us a 30% CHANCE for Parrying. Alone that is laughable. Second we can't parry Boss Hits and we can't Evade them too. So this Skill has only its uses against trash where i wouldn't use it Beefed up because it would hurt the Mana Regeneration from Blood Price.

Suggestion:

- Total Rework

Living Death

Absolute Nightmare for the Healers. Nothing to say here. Needs a complete Redo too.

Salted Earth

While i quite like this skill it falls in the category "skill bloath". They could easily added a dot to unleash that ticks for the same amount at the same time.

Suggestions:

- Add a Debuffing Effect
- Raise the Cooldown to X Seconds because of said debuff effect

Reprisal

Thats a easy one, 30 Seconds cooldown, only works when we parried. Gives the same Debuff like the Warrior has.

Suggestions:

- Lower Cooldown to 20 Seconds (Duration time)
- Remove Parry Restriction

[TouchandFeel]

There was really no need for another DRK suggestion thread, no matter your feelings on the suggestions of others in those threads.

If you feel that some of the suggestions in the other threads are too much, state that in those threads, provide the reasons why they are too much and then provide an alternative that you feel is more balanced.

We should be attempting to consolidate the drk suggestion and feedback threads, not make a new one every time someone comes up with an idea.
I truly hope the forum moderators merge the threads or create an official DRK feedback/suggestion thread so they can be in one spot.

[Hypie]

There was really no need for another DRK suggestion thread, no matter your feelings on the suggestions of others in those threads.

If you feel that some of the suggestions in the other threads are too much, state that in those threads, provide the reasons why they are too much and then provide an alternative that you feel is more balanced.

We should be attempting to consolidate the drk suggestion and feedback threads, not make a new one every time someone comes up with an idea.
I truly hope the forum moderators merge the threads or create an official DRK feedback/suggestion thread so they can be in one spot.

Actually i agree with you but my problem is that the discussion derailed some time ago =/

[Faytte]

Many things wrong in your post. Split and carve base potency is 300 not 100(its three attacks at that potency) and gives a lot of mana back. It's damn good for a class with many other off gcd attacks. Secondly under dark dance you absolutely can parry boss attacks. I parried flattens all day in t13. The only thing you can parry are spells like ahk morn and drk have the best mitigation to those with dark mind.

[Xenosan]

Many things wrong in your post. Split and carve base potency is 300 not 100(its three attacks at that potency) and gives a lot of mana back.

I'm sad to say that this is false. It's a Tool Tip error or the Weapon Skill is glitched.

Unbuffed C&S deals a single, 1-hit 100 potency attack. It is easy to test on a target dummy. Try it out:

>

It is possible there is a mechanical error of the WS itself instead of being a translation error in the Tool Tip. Some numbers of note:

C&S gives the same amount of MP as a single combo'd Syphon (not a similar amount, identical). 884.

( 2 Syphons ) or ( 1 Syphon and 1 unbuffed C&S ) amount to the exact MP cost of Dark Arts. At 60, Syphon/C&S return 884 MP. Dark Arts cost us 1768 MP.

What's 884 * 2 ?

Blood Weapon returns 238 MP for every physical attack delivered. This includes Auto Attacks.

C&S - while under Blood Weapon - returns a single 238 MP from Blood Weapon, not three.

If there is an error in the Weapon Skill itself, and Carve & Split is suppose to register as three separate attacks, then:

Blood Weapon should be granting 238 MP three times, the Damage inflicted via C&S should be 3 times higher than Unleashed, and C&S's MP return should be equal to 3 Syphons, not just 1.

I hope it's a glitch, because if so, that means unbuffed C&S should reward 2652 MP instead of just 884. ( 884 * 3 )

The if/or situation of C&S -- choosing between a Dark Arts buff granting 450 potency, or vanilla 100 potency & a single Syphon's worth of MP -- is laughable. You're sacrificing 350 potency for the semi-equivalent of 1 stack of Wrath/Abandon. A complete joke. 350 potency is practically a DA buffed Souleater, and you've passed on that potency opportunity to regain only half of it's cost.

Now, if a vanilla Carve and Split granted 2652 MP instead of 884, that changes the situation. Players are given the choice of buffing C&S to use as a Damage WS, OR instead they can leave it vanilla and use it as a pseudo Infuriate with a 60 second recast.

Oh yea, Infuriate has a 60 second cool down too.

Quite a coincidence, it's possible the Weapon Skill is glitched.

Note: if it is glitched, I doubt a fix will increase the Dark Arts buff potency over 450. If it's three attacks at 450 potency each then that is a shocking 1350 potency overall.

More likely that C&S will have three attacks amounting to 100 potency overall (33 each), and when enhanced with Dark Arts each attack is increased to 150 potency (450 overall).

(While talking MP cost, how expensive is Dark Passenger? A: 884 MP. Dark Passenger is equal to one Syphon or Unbuffed C&S)

[Dualblade]

Dark Dance increases parry by 20%, and almost all (maybe all, not completly sure) physical attacks can be parried. Magic attacks can never be parried, but DRK's seem to already be the best for handling those.

Currently still leveling mine so not much else to comment on aside from that.

Edit: Just got the trait that increases the parry to 30%, wasn't paying enough attention. Still not as bad as you make it out to be

[SpookyGhost]

Before you start like "lolol no bismarck/ravana ex skill you don't know sheet" remember that I don't need these Kills for figuring out that there is something really wrong with our new Tanking Job.

Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but since you brought this up it got me curious: have any DRKs out there stepped inside Bismarck/Ravana EX? If so, thoughts on how DRK performed in those?

[Ditto]

Dark Dance increases parry by 20%, and almost all (maybe all, not completly sure) physical attacks can be parried. Magic attacks can never be parried, but DRK's seem to already be the best for handling those.

Currently still leveling mine so not much else to comment on aside from that.

It's 30%, and that's only parry rate. 30% extra chance to mitigate 20% of physical damage on a hit. More often than not I see myself not parrying even with Dark Dance up. It's dodge when under Dark Arts is what is 20%. It's just not a reliable cooldown at all, worse than Rampart for most cases. It only really shines when you Dark Arts it, after having Dark Arts'd a Passenger on a group of mobs. The dodge + the blind makes you crazy evasive.

Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but since you brought this up it got me curious: have any DRKs out there stepped inside Bismarck/Ravana EX? If so, thoughts on how DRK performed in those?

I have Bismarck EX down, and am working on Ravanas last phase. Drk definitely gets hit a HELL of a lot harder in these places, but that's more often than not due to not having a reliable CD when you need it after having already used the only 2 you have, that are actually reliable.

In Bismarck's case, it's much easier due to the two snakes I believe doing magic damage. After that however, if you get stuck with the two physical adds each transition, you're going to take a pounding. But it's stil completely possible, not all that hard even if you know what you're doing and the healer can keep you going. You will have a harder time than a War or a Pally however.

There is no tank buster, so it's easily manageable by a Drk.

As for Ravana, it's all physical, so this is where Drk kind of gets boned. A Paladin, and even a good Warrior can solo tank the fight, eating the cleaves that are suppose to be split between 2 tanks on their own. A Drk however has a harder time doing that due to only really having 2 cd's to rely on. If that cleave hits you unmitigated, it can easily pop 14k of your HP instantly. That going out with the rest of the damage just becomes very hard to manage. I'm sure it's possible, and I'm sure some Drk somewhere is going to learn the fight well enough to learn exactly what they can do when, but as it is now, a Drk has a much, much harder time solo tanking it.

For double tanking it, it's possible, you still get hit like a truck for the cleaves even split, but not enough to be life threatening. (Got hit for 9k by a cleave, out of my 15k HP)

You don't exactly bring much to this fight is the problem as well though. So not only do you have it harder than both other tanks, both other tanks are more often than not, a much, much better option to take simply because of their utility in helping the group as a whole. Int down doesn't do anything for that fight, and Reprisal isn't a reliable debuff. Hell you wont even be able to have it going unless you parry a cleave maybe.

There isn't a single tank buster in this fight either though, just a crap ton of damage everywhere, hence why the utility a Pld and a War bring trumps what a Drk brings.

[Kaedan]

I would hardly call your OP "moderate". It's pretty extreme.

The only statements/suggestion I really agree with is Reprisal, Dark Dance to a lesser extent.

With Reprisal, they should just make it operate like Shield swipe, meaning on the GCD and procs any time you parry.

With Dark Dance, it needs to be a bit more potent. +30% Parry rate and 20% Evasion when Dark Arts is pathetic, definitely not a good cool down. Should change it to a "Darkness Shield" that absorbs X amount of damage (some percentage of HP/MP probably) and when Dark Arts is used with it, it generates "Dread Spikes" that reflect all or a portion of the damage back at the attacker.

[Falgern]

Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but since you brought this up it got me curious: have any DRKs out there stepped inside Bismarck/Ravana EX? If so, thoughts on how DRK performed in those?

I went in and did Bismarck, had no problem to cover all of the hard hitting spells with cooldowns and didn't really feel squishy. Asked the healers and they said it was like healing a warrior or paladin.
The only real problem with dark knight tanks is when the tank busters come quicker than your spells come off cooldown as you only have two( three if it's magical ) cooldowns that have a somewhat long cooldown, this doesn't happen during Bismarck and supposedly not during Ravana, might be a problem in alexander