Major plot hole with Heavensward ending (Spoilers, duh)

[nyttyn]

So, Estinein. Drops his guard for 'but a moment,' then suddenly Niddhog takes over in a fashion that would make CATS proud. A touching moment, but one big problem -

It made no damn sense.

Consider the context - one eye had just been drained, twice - once to overpower the barrier of Azys Lla, and another to kill a ascian (which is even REMARKED UPON RIGHT THERE), and the other had just been sapped to transform the Archbishop and the Heavens' Ward (albiet, after consuming Lahabrea). So, unless Lahabrea was some sort of uberconduit the likes of which the world has never seen, how the hell did the eyes, in their drained state, manage to overpower the dragoon in the mere less-than-a-minute he was holding the things?

This gets even stupider in light of the fact that King Thordan's son held the bloody things for who knows how long (easily upwards of ten minutes at the least), both at once, and he never so much as saw a hint of going super nidhogg sayian - and this was when Nidhogg's eyes were at full power - immediately after getting ripped out of the wyrm's sockets. Plus Nidhogg wasn't even dead at the time!

I like the story overall but this is kind of a glaring diabolus ex machina.

[AlbelTelWicked]

Two key things.

You answered the reason why King Thordan's son didn't go super nidhogg, Nidhogg still had a physical form. In this non physical form he probably attached to Estinein and took control when his guard was down. If he was killed in the past and his physical form destroyed he could have probably taken over King Thordan's son.

Secondly, Estinein was much more blood thirsty and had hatred in him throughout the expansion if you are aware. He also had the eye with him, Nidhoggs blood on his armor if you didn't notice his armor was changed to red after he killed nidhogg think of it like a catalyst, losing a physical form he attached himself to Estinein and waited. King Thordan didn't kill him so he couldn't attach himself to King Thordan like he did to Estinein.

This is speculation but him having a physical form after King Thordan until Estinein killed him and Estinein having bathed in his blood and other hatred things as a catalyst does have it make more sense.

[lololink]

I don't think it's directly related to the blood of the dragon, all dragoon armors contains dragon blood so I don't think that would explain a lot also you have to drink the blood to change, the fact that the power of the eye was weakened didn't weakened Niddhog's will, his will was separated in the two eyes, Estinien had troubles to contain one so when he had two niddhogs must have been taken over by niddhog's will reassembled in the eyes.

[nyttyn]

Hm, those are some pretty good points. Still kind of out of the right field, but it does make much more sense when one considers those two factors.

Though, it does raise some disturbing implications if dragons can come back from the grave like that.

[Viridiana]

Though, it does raise some disturbing implications if dragons can come back from the grave like that.

We know Midgardsormr can, at least if the Battle of Silvertear Skies before 1.0 actually killed him. I suspect that Mid is the only one who's completely immortal, and the others have a more limited form. I don't think Ratatoskr will ever be able to be brought back, for example, and the same is probably true of the real Bahamut.

[Allyrion]

We know Midgardsormr can, at least if the Battle of Silvertear Skies before 1.0 actually killed him. I suspect that Mid is the only one who's completely immortal, and the others have a more limited form. I don't think Ratatoskr will ever be able to be brought back, for example, and the same is probably true of the real Bahamut.

I have serious doubts that what possesses Estinien is even the real Nidhogg.
Not in the primal sense though.
I suspect it's more like the essence of hatred and fury that rages within the Eyes taking form.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Now this is a completely baseless assumption, but it seems to me that TRUE Eikons are God Like beings independent of summoners.

What do all primals, even Bahamut and Phoenix, have in common? Summoners, Prayer + Crystals summons a godlike being in the image of the summoner's desires.

Which of our "Primal" foes hasn't fit this pattern? That would be Odin who apparently uses The Zantetsuken to Summon himself using the last schlub that picked it up as a catalyst.

And what exactly Alexander is remains to be seen. But it seems Eorzians throw the word Primal around as carelessly as the Garleans throw around the word Eikon.

But based on our revelations of the Primals Bahamut and Shiva I'd say we have a way of definitively identifying what a primal is now. That being a glorified aethyric construct that is summoned using your perceived image of the being you're calling.

(Hey I was right for once)

[RyuRoots]

Hm, those are some pretty good points. Still kind of out of the right field, but it does make much more sense when one considers those two factors.

Though, it does raise some disturbing implications if dragons can come back from the grave like that.

It's probably a safe assumption that this level of power is something only the Great Wyrms are capable of (Tiamat if she were free, Hraesvelgr, and so on). It's worth remembering that Thordan and his group of betrayers didn't dine on any old dragon eyes; they picked one of the great ones. We also never see any dragons do anything like taking a new form/body for themselves after apparently being dead aside from Midgardsormr and our friend Nidhogg.

[lololink]

Well dragons come from another world and their soul seems to be shared between their body and their eyes, so we can consider that a dragon ( or at least an ancien dragon since we don't know if regular dragon eyes have the same properties ) are dead only when both their eyes and body are destroyed.

Also maybe Niddhog posess the echo and did the same thing the sahagin priest did.

[Kauthryn]

I don't see the plot hole at all, I just see you wanting there to be one?

Haldath was, as was stated, completely in control of himself when he possessed the eyes. Nidhogg then fled to his brother because he was gravely wounded. How could he both consume/become Haldath and maintain his other form?

Secondly, while the eye you used was weakened, the other was still strong. In a moment of foolish confidence (Estinien's flaw), he lowered his guard -- as we were warned of several times -- and was consumed by the power that he claimed he mastered. This was foreshadowed for several quests, so where are you getting that it comes out of nowhere?

I don't think we were supposed to take Estinien as being at the zenith of his dragonphobia then, though. It seems he was actually somewhat stayed in his animosity as he bids Iceheart farewell following her sacrifice. It's more likely that he just thought "his watch had ended," and in that moment the Elderseer's warning came true.