Not finding DRK squishy at all.

[Ditto]

Most people who claim Drk to be OP are those that are still in 'awe' of it just being the new tank class, and are very likely still doing early level 50 stuff, if not lower.

Any tank can tank that stuff fine, without much difference really.

Yes, CD's should be used regularly as a Drk, especially Shadowskin and Dark Mind due to the low cd's.

The problem comes in when you look at the layers of defense each tank has. As dank1 said, it's about the balance, and as is, Drk is at the very bottom due to this.

Warriors have the benefit of extra HP, extra healing, and the parry chance. They're a reactive tank when it comes to Inner Beast, but a good Warrior will ALWAYS have Inner Beast when they need it. Essentially giving Warriors exactly what Grit gives a Drk (Excluding the acc), for 6 seconds, when they need it the most, ONTOP of their Defiance. Which is all that matters.

Paladins have an entire shield mechanic which involves blocking crazy amounts of damage. That and their tanking kit is really the best as far as safety net tanking goes. I'd even go as far to say that even in an OT position, Paladin outshines a Drk easily, due to their new toys.

Drk's simply have a 20% mitigation stance, same as Paladins, that also increases our chance to hit by 5%. But we do not carry a shield, thus we cannot block, and we do not have the Parrying capability a Warrior has, nor anything equivalent to the reactiveness with their Inner Beast. It's like we're missing what we need to make us shine compared to the other two.

It wont be that noticeable until you're at 60, with other tanks. Tank busters, and high quick incoming damage can really screw a Drk even with their buffs. A Pld can block and pop cd's, a War can Inner Beast with cd's for extra layer of protection. As a Drk, we pop 1 CD and hope to god we don't need to pop the other, because chances are we're going to need it for something else. This also leads to us sitting on our CD's waiting until we need them the most, even if we're taking boat loads of damage at the time. For example, during the 2 snake-thing adds in Bismarck EX, I find myself sitting on CD's, and trying to only use 1 at a time between each tank shift, because the moment we switch, I know I'm about to get nailed by a dry fin, and wet fin.

In Ravana EX, well there isn't exactly a tank buster in there really, but eating a cleave split with the other tank, unmitigated, can still hit up to 9k easily. With the amount of outgoing damage there is in that fight in quick bursts, it can really suck. Not quite as bad as it'd be if it had a tank buster other than a cleave you split with the other tank though. A Paladin however, and possibly even a Warrior, can solo tank this fight. As for a Drk, well I'm not entirely convinced they could. I doubt it seeing as you have nothing but 2 small mitigation cd's, one of which has a stupid high cooldown for what it does. Perhaps in much, much better gear, but as is, that cleave left unmitigated can smack you for 14k easily. Add that in with the rest of the outgoing damage and what the rest of your party needs to watch out for, and it just becomes overwhelming.

If you specify situations like that, then technically anything is possible. So it's not really helpful for discussion. I still do not believe a melee DPS could tank the new dungeons even overgeared though. The new mobs in HW hit a lot harder and have a lot more HP than their 2.x counterparts. A WAR in DPS stance is still worlds more tanky than a melee DPS.

You must have never met a geared Monk before. Or a Dragoon.

Hell I watched a Dragoon tank almost 90% of The Aery, up to the last boss.

[Hundred]

Mind the comparisons I was using before against PLD. Reprisal is not included, which is another 10% in their favor which also bridges the gap between Shadow wall and Sentinel. Granted Reprisal isn't available for a long time, has 10s of downtime and its gated by RNG, nor does it stack with Storms path apparently, which means its pretty much only relevant in the context of Drk MT, Pld OT when you want Drk with their Drk Mind for magical tank busters.

[Rhaja]

Mind the comparisons I was using before against PLD. Reprisal is not included, which is another 10% in their favor which also bridges the gap between Shadow wall and Sentinel. Granted Reprisal isn't available for a long time, has 10s of downtime and its gated by RNG, nor does it stack with Storms path apparently, which means its pretty much only relevant in the context of Drk MT, Pld OT when you want Drk with their Drk Mind for magical tank busters.

Makes me feel even more that both Reprisal should be a self buff instead of a debuff, and locked behind it's CD with a chance for parry to reset it than what we currently have. Quite honestly it would be more reliable, and the soft defensive buff that we stack with Shadowskin or something when needed.

Hell switch the INT down to magic dmg down, let MNK's keep their debuff.

[Ditto]

Mind the comparisons I was using before against PLD. Reprisal is not included, which is another 10% in their favor which also bridges the gap between Shadow wall and Sentinel. Granted Reprisal isn't available for a long time, has 10s of downtime and its gated by RNG, nor does it stack with Storms path apparently, which means its pretty much only relevant in the context of Drk MT, Pld OT when you want Drk with their Drk Mind for magical tank busters.

For Magic tank busters, I think a Warrior MT is likely still better. People seem to be forgetting that a flat percentage of damage reduction does exactly what Dark Mind does for us, hell even more unless the Dark Mind is buffed with Dark Arts. Though even then, there is still the question of whether or not 'magic vulnerability' works the same as raw damage percent mitigation. (I'm not entirely sure)

Just because we have a 10% Int debuff, and a skill that is limited to magic mitigation, doesn't mean magic is our thing really when the other tanks can possibly do the exact same thing as us, within their raw damage mitigation. If it's a fight like Ramuh, then you can toss Reprisal out the window. Storms Path at least can be kept up no matter what, and permanently, unlike Reprisal even if you could use it.

We cant exactly sit on Reprisal either due to how short the availability window of it is after a parry.

[Hundred]

For Magic tank busters, I think a Warrior MT is likely still better. People seem to be forgetting that a flat percentage......

Magic is rather blatantly the dark knights thing.
If you don't have a monk on the party where does -Int come to mitigate magical dmg? Drk.
Inner Beast is 20% to everything, Drk Mind reaches 30% to magical. Drk Mind is more potent only so far as magical damage is concerned. If the 30% isn't flat mitigation to magical well then Lol, but under the presumption that it is, it clearly gives Drk something they do well at.


Is reprisal clunky? Yes, absolutely, no argument from me there, but it is potent when available.

[SpookyGhost]

A Paladin however, and possibly even a Warrior, can solo tank this fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6UCSSkwUPg

I think DRK could solo tank this fight fine, though.

[Ditto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6UCSSkwUPg

I think DRK could solo tank this fight fine, though.

Possibly. But that's a Warrior, They have a lot easier time doing it than Drk.

Drk could do it I definately know if they find someone else to split the damage with, or are able to time when the cleaves are coming and turn it into the group instead of eating it alone.

[Kiteless]

Possibly. But that's a Warrior, They have a lot easier time doing it than Drk.

Drk could do it I definately know if they find someone else to split the damage with, or are able to time when the cleaves are coming and turn it into the group instead of eating it alone.

At which point, why would any dedicated party want to do it with a DRK in the first place?