Not finding DRK squishy at all.

[Zeikial]

any tank not mitigating damage is going to be squishy, I have seen squishy tanks from all classes from high iLvL to low, its the player not the class

[Tila]

any tank not mitigating damage is going to be squishy, I have seen squishy tanks from all classes from high iLvL to low, its the player not the class

DRK doesnt have as much passive mitigation as the other tanks while not having all that much more active mitigation.

Players can't magically make the DRK have as much mitigation as the others.

[Tiqa]

They could have just make high level mobs hit harder...well, we'll test with higher level characters

Yes, it would have been so logical...
I can't wait to level my PLD to 51 and test this again

any tank not mitigating damage is going to be squishy, I have seen squishy tanks from all classes from high iLvL to low, its the player not the class

This is just not what Reynhart and I are talking about, jerk tank are just bad whatever class they're playing, good ones knows how to mitigate dmg, knows just how much they can handle and how to deal dmg while keeping the big one focused on them. We just suspect that DRK's def stat might be broken, from what I tested, it seems to be, now we are wondering if going from 50 to 51 makes dmg calculation such different, we're talking about 20% more dmg, just as much weight than having tanking stance or not!

[Hundred]

DRK doesnt have as much passive mitigation as the other tanks while not having all that much more active mitigation.

Players can't magically make the DRK have as much mitigation as the others.

Wtf are you talking about. Passively the mitigation is nearly the same except for PLD's shield.
Warriors 10% Parry on Defiance is irrelevant. Even in the BEST case scenario where 10% Parry is 10% increase in parry rate out of 100%, that Parry is fixed at 20% mitigation means a 10% chance to mitigate 20% damage, is a 2% increase in mitigation. "Well thats 2% Drk doesn't have" Except thats 2 % built up over 8 GCD's and then spent and rebuilt, aka Its not actually 2% mitigation at all, nor can a healer even FEEL this because we're talking such an irrelevant amount of mitigation that randomly occurs.

Its not even worth discussing their mitigation passively. Pld will always have the advantage, and warriors is irrelevant.
If your comparing their toolset up to 50, PLD do not have an equivalent to Dark Mind, they do have awareness (But lol its awareness), and Sentinel is 10% more potent then Shadow Wall. Dark dance has a vastly shorter cooldown then Bulwark.

[Faytte]

Passive mitigation is similar, Paladins are in the lead (shield is awesome).

Active, Drk trade defense for offense while tanking--if they gain more tankyness, they should loose some of that offense (If they say, tanked as well as a war overall--id see there being an issue between them and warriors). So, they are nifty, they might be able to do all content, but it wont be what people consider ideal cause the only people that care about tank dps.....

...are tanks....

[Hundred]

Rampart = Shadow skin
Convalesence is Convalesence, PLD have the best version of it
Foresight is Foresight, War have the best version of it
Awareness is lol, PLD have the best version of it.
Blood bath is blood bath, War have the best version of it
Mercy strike is lol, War have the best version of it
Sentinel and Shadow Wall are the same CD, same duration, same purpose. Sentinel is better by 10%.
Dark Mind has no real equivalent.
Bulwark = Dark dance, Bulwark has 3x more cooldown. In drks favor.
Hallowed ground = Living dead = Holmgang
Soul eater = Fairly irrelevant imo.

Abyssial drain, Sole survivor = Trash mob skills.
Clemency, Raw intuition, Equilibrium, Divine Veil, Shell tron = Boss relevant skills.

Again its basically that DRK shine in magical fights because Dark Mind is that little niche that they have. On physical dominant fights the PLD is unquestionably better. If a magical dominant fight, the Drk is better at least @ 50, but given their 52-60 mitigation skills are basically heals on trash mobs, they might lose their magical fight relevance given War & PLD have skills that are actually relevant against a boss.

[Xyphon]

Yea, not squishy at all. Having been lvl 60 for a couple days myself, the mitigation is pretty nice. I'm not sure if the people complaining are not properly rotating their defensive cooldowns, or have forgot to enable grit.

I myself am all in STR acc, with str stat distribution (sitting at about 840 out side of pt, 865 in pt). I'm between about 13-14k with food, and I've seen no issues with being MT. Since all of DRK skills scale off of attack power, this makes alot of abilities shine. I'm currently working on upgrading my right side, and then I'll test how it works on the ex primals.

Though, from what I seen; long as you have a competent healer and you rotate cooldowns (hitting retaliation every time its up) there's not much of an issue with mitigation. If you are locking down hate properly at the start of a boss fight, you should be able to essentially spam dark arts+ souleater till the boss goes down. (delirium when mp is low). If people are having an issue with this, you may want to look at your opening rotation for pulling.

In large packs of trash, blood price + dark arts + abyssal drain works wonders. I'm also curious what people are using for cross class skills. I'm personally running: Convalescence, Foresight, Bloodbath, fracture, and provoke. I enjoy using fracture/scourge esp with blood weapon when OT.

[Ditto]

Most people who claim Drk to be OP are those that are still in 'awe' of it just being the new tank class, and are very likely still doing early level 50 stuff, if not lower.

Any tank can tank that stuff fine, without much difference really.

Yes, CD's should be used regularly as a Drk, especially Shadowskin and Dark Mind due to the low cd's.

The problem comes in when you look at the layers of defense each tank has. As dank1 said, it's about the balance, and as is, Drk is at the very bottom due to this.

Warriors have the benefit of extra HP, extra healing, and the parry chance. They're a reactive tank when it comes to Inner Beast, but a good Warrior will ALWAYS have Inner Beast when they need it. Essentially giving Warriors exactly what Grit gives a Drk (Excluding the acc), for 6 seconds, when they need it the most, ONTOP of their Defiance. Which is all that matters.

Paladins have an entire shield mechanic which involves blocking crazy amounts of damage. That and their tanking kit is really the best as far as safety net tanking goes. I'd even go as far to say that even in an OT position, Paladin outshines a Drk easily, due to their new toys.

Drk's simply have a 20% mitigation stance, same as Paladins, that also increases our chance to hit by 5%. But we do not carry a shield, thus we cannot block, and we do not have the Parrying capability a Warrior has, nor anything equivalent to the reactiveness with their Inner Beast. It's like we're missing what we need to make us shine compared to the other two.

It wont be that noticeable until you're at 60, with other tanks. Tank busters, and high quick incoming damage can really screw a Drk even with their buffs. A Pld can block and pop cd's, a War can Inner Beast with cd's for extra layer of protection. As a Drk, we pop 1 CD and hope to god we don't need to pop the other, because chances are we're going to need it for something else. This also leads to us sitting on our CD's waiting until we need them the most, even if we're taking boat loads of damage at the time. For example, during the 2 snake-thing adds in Bismarck EX, I find myself sitting on CD's, and trying to only use 1 at a time between each tank shift, because the moment we switch, I know I'm about to get nailed by a dry fin, and wet fin.

In Ravana EX, well there isn't exactly a tank buster in there really, but eating a cleave split with the other tank, unmitigated, can still hit up to 9k easily. With the amount of outgoing damage there is in that fight in quick bursts, it can really suck. Not quite as bad as it'd be if it had a tank buster other than a cleave you split with the other tank though. A Paladin however, and possibly even a Warrior, can solo tank this fight. As for a Drk, well I'm not entirely convinced they could. I doubt it seeing as you have nothing but 2 small mitigation cd's, one of which has a stupid high cooldown for what it does. Perhaps in much, much better gear, but as is, that cleave left unmitigated can smack you for 14k easily. Add that in with the rest of the outgoing damage and what the rest of your party needs to watch out for, and it just becomes overwhelming.

If you specify situations like that, then technically anything is possible. So it's not really helpful for discussion. I still do not believe a melee DPS could tank the new dungeons even overgeared though. The new mobs in HW hit a lot harder and have a lot more HP than their 2.x counterparts. A WAR in DPS stance is still worlds more tanky than a melee DPS.

You must have never met a geared Monk before. Or a Dragoon.

Hell I watched a Dragoon tank almost 90% of The Aery, up to the last boss.

[Hundred]

Mind the comparisons I was using before against PLD. Reprisal is not included, which is another 10% in their favor which also bridges the gap between Shadow wall and Sentinel. Granted Reprisal isn't available for a long time, has 10s of downtime and its gated by RNG, nor does it stack with Storms path apparently, which means its pretty much only relevant in the context of Drk MT, Pld OT when you want Drk with their Drk Mind for magical tank busters.

[Rhaja]

Mind the comparisons I was using before against PLD. Reprisal is not included, which is another 10% in their favor which also bridges the gap between Shadow wall and Sentinel. Granted Reprisal isn't available for a long time, has 10s of downtime and its gated by RNG, nor does it stack with Storms path apparently, which means its pretty much only relevant in the context of Drk MT, Pld OT when you want Drk with their Drk Mind for magical tank busters.

Makes me feel even more that both Reprisal should be a self buff instead of a debuff, and locked behind it's CD with a chance for parry to reset it than what we currently have. Quite honestly it would be more reliable, and the soft defensive buff that we stack with Shadowskin or something when needed.

Hell switch the INT down to magic dmg down, let MNK's keep their debuff.