Machinist needs serious attention

[SovereignAegis]

I feel like I am out DPSing a machinist as a scholar in the level 60 dungeon running for law tomestones.

At present with cleric stance I am hitting a consistent 1k per strike + all my DoT's. However the machinist whenever they attack something has staggeringly lower numbers and it is weird. YES THAT IS INCLUDING TURRET.


And if I hit 1k per strike with the 170 potency broil, a WHM with 210 (? It was above 200 I know that) potency stone 3 will hit even more.

[Musashidon]

guys don't forget brd/mch have the lowest damage on their weapons.

these are the best weapons for mch/brd

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/de9454ba13f/

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/28af3d6bc50/

65 damage

this is for tanks

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/a0edc9771df/

72 damage

this is healers

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/ae2adefe648/

100 magical damage

[LittleArrow]

Yeah and the whole damage differences are so bizarre to me. Why compensate healers dps when the comparison to mch there doesn't need to be any compensation? Lol

Healers are doing more damage than we are, and if not healers, look at other classes weapon damage.

I'm tired of this idea that we keep getting punished for having to do more. There needs to be a draw to this class not a deterrent.

[PocketFox]

I guess I'm one of those MCH that hasn't noticed a problem? I don't parse, and I'm only 57, but I've been running with a pretty set group, with SMN as the other dps, and while my AOE is pretty terrible compared to hers, I think I'm doing well on bosses. On a boss, I play my rotation this way:

Hot Shot -> Blood for Blood and Hawk's Eye -> Lead Shot -> Raging Strikes -> Reload -> Wildfire -> Split Shot -> Slug Shot -> Reassemble -> Rapid Fire -> Clean Shot -> Split Shot -> Slug Shot -> Clean Shot

I weave Gauss Round in as I can, usually starting just after I start my initial round of Shots. I tend to save Quick Reload until I get a natural proc from Split Shot (so that I can get a guaranteed 200 potency Clean Shot) but I've been wondering if it wouldn't be better to change that up. RNG can sometimes not be on my side, but again, I've been able to keep up with our SMN without trouble.

I do miss Second Wind though, so I definitely agree that MCH needs a self heal.

[Gamer3427]

I do miss Second Wind though, so I definitely agree that MCH needs a self heal.

This is my main concern. As far as I'm aware, we MCH are the only class that doesn't have any capacity to self heal, (not counting potions obviously). This is fine enough for group stuff, but it means we have to be extra cautious when soloing content. Particularly since the closest thing we have to defensive skills in general are the slow skill from lancer and the heavy/bind and silence/stun skills, which are more of just brief delaying tactics for the most part. Our one real debuff is a measly 5% one that only lasts for 10 seconds. I love this class, but when my only real method of surviving when alone is to run in circles, it can be quite problematic since few pieces of content place enemies where they aren't near adds if you stray even a few feet away......

EDIT: As for what Ocean said above, I'd like to point out that pure DPSing healers can put out a lot of damage if they're using their offensive skills properly. Cleric Stance is a bit over powered in that regard, since a pure MND healer with top end gear will have more raw stats than a pure INT/STR/DEX DPS, (if I'm remembering stat comparisons correctly), and Cleric Stance changes all that to pure damage while giving it a stat buff that doesn't wear off. DPS in general can only surpass it due to use of combos and their own buffs, and even then it's a bit iffy after the DPS burst is over with and everything is on cooldown, while the Healer isn't limited by such in their primary attack skills. The only reason this isn't broken in normal gameplay is because if the Healers stay in Cleric Stance and DPS as much as the DPS themselves do, then people start dropping like flies.....

[Wizarus]

With 9 Energy Drain opener and Ruin 2 -> Broil upgrade, I really think SCH could outDPS MCH, it may barely win because of Raging Strikes.

[Kaedan94]

For everyone arguing about healer's out DPSing MCHs... is that taking into account actually having to heal? Or are you purely going by numbers on what's possible if you just DPS and don't heal?

[MrSmiley]

For everyone arguing about healer's out DPSing MCHs... is that taking into account actually having to heal? Or are you purely going by numbers on what's possible if you just DPS and don't heal?

either way, that's bad if premades could just take an extra healer who could pop off cleric stance if needed and they'd do more damage...

[LittleArrow]

@Pocketfox,

Just to give you a comparison, PLDs have a higher potency combo than ours and they do not have to rely on RNG for their combos to go off. Not to sound rude, but if you're basing your DPS purely off of when you have cooldowns, you're missing the point. MCH low dps can be hidden or not noticeable in short bursts with cooldowns. It will show when you're fighting a mob that takes more than 2mins to kill in comparison to another DPSer killing the same type of mob. Unless you have someone else running something to show the difference between yours and the SMNs dps, you can't tell the difference of dps on the same mob. I mean absolutely no disrespect to your SMNer friend, but the SMN should pull ahead of you in DPS after you've gone through your cooldowns. If not, they might want to look at their rotation / gear / or SMNers might just get super beefy at lvl 60.

PLD: Fast Blade (150 potency) > Savage Blade (200 potency / 2.5 recast) > Royal Auth (340 potency / 2.5 recast)
That 2.5 recast is similar to my 2.48 GCD. Either way, they don't have to worry about some weird proc nonsense that we do. Pocketfox, it doesn't seem like we're that bad, but once you start hearing potencies of other job classes you realize how weak we are in comparison, then you take into consideration how long it takes us to use our skills doubled with the horrible proc rates (comparing to BRD now who has similar low potencies but not being dependent on procs aside from freebie shots and they also have incredibly faster shots than we do) you begin to realize that just at a glance our job is too weak.

If you really want to see how bad your dps is, get a friend that's great at their job (try to find an endgame raider who you know is highly regarded - yes, great dpsers don't have to be hardcore raiders, but I don't know who you play with aside from the SMN), and stop comparing your opener. Just use your basic cooldown rotation and try to find 2 mobs that takes you more than a minute to kill. See how you two do.

I don't mean to sound like I"m trying to convince you of something that may not be there. I'm only attempting to point out one major flaw this class seems to be struggling with that is easily hidden beneath a couple layers of red herrings that this job contains (complicated gameplay and really pretty numbers during openers - btw, to compare those 'crits' my BLM bro at level 50 was doing 2000+ crits and on BRD at 50 I was doing 1800 crits).

[Velhart]

I seriously do not know how SE let this get past testing. It is more of a my fault, but I leveled this to 60 and I enjoyed the hell out of playing the job. Unfortunately, when comparing DPS to other jobs especially BRD, I was a tad devastated that my DPS, at a currently accepted optimal rotation is pulling 100-200 DPS less than BRD, which is a job that is even easier to play and puts more out. The job, while fun, does require much more out of you than BRD and it's reward does not even compare. I know these are suppose to be support classes, but at the same time, their DPS in progression raids is just as important as everyone else's.

Sad truth, people are going to shun MCH till it gets fixed and I 100% do not blame them. This is not something that should wait till 3.1, SE needs to set priorities on fixing both BRD and MCH or at least come out and explain the reasoning behind this. I can't believe SE did not check these jobs to make sure they scale like they did in 2.0. I am going to have to just take a hit on this and level up BRD through dungeons/leves and such.

Basically, this needs immediate attention, SE. No waiting for 2-3 patches and do one simple thing that does not help. It needs a WAR like makeover.