Machinist needs serious attention

[Ocean4]

I would just like to mention, that the potencies on WHM might be higher. If MCN don't use buffs and use equivalent gear at level 60, I'd be willing to argue that a WHM might be able to out damage a MCN or come close.

Stone III has a potency of 210
(don't use Aero I on a target dummy with a total potency of only 200)
Aero II has a total potency of 250 over 12 seconds
Aero III has a total potency of 290 over 24 seconds
Fluid Aura has a potency of 150 refreshed every 30 seconds
Assize has a total Potency of 300 refreshed ever 60 seconds

Assuming that a whm refreshes the dots at the exact time the drop and uses fluid aura/assize at the exact time they are available, let's take the lowest common denominator for cooldowns. We can use this to find out a rough estimate of optimal PPS average of a WHM. This comes out to 2 minutes (or 120 seconds). Second let's figure out how many Stone III fillers we'll have. 120 seconds / 3 second GCD (note this is not the actually GCD, however for all intensive purposes we can say that we will get this or MORE stone III's over time) = 40. Then we can subtract the GCD's taken up by Aero III and Aero II (15. See below). So roughly we have 25 or MORE Stone III's over the course of 2 minutes.

Over 120 seconds we have:
2 Assize (300 * 2 = 600 combined potency)
4 Fluid Aura (150 * 4 = 600 combined potency)
5 Aero III (290 * 5 = 1450 combined potency)
10 Aero II (250 * 10 = 2500 combined potency)
25 Stone III's (210 * 25 = 5250 combined potency)

This brings us to a rough (likely higher) total of 10,400 total potency. If we want a rough estimate of PPS, let's divide it by the 120 seconds we did our theory-crafting with. This is approximately 86.67 pps (potency per second).

I have yet to see any math, but I'd argue that without major buffs the pps on MCN might be just higher or equal to WHM. Have you ever thought you might get beaten by a healer in dps? Well, you might just get beat now with how poor MCN's damage looks right now.

~Ocean

Disclaimer: If my math is wrong, I can do some simulations to find the true number of Stone III's over 2 minutes and add in doing the cd's fluid aura and assize at the 2 minute mark (which is not included because they would end up slightly over 2 minutes, 0 minute and 1 minute mark are the only included).

[Fantasy9]

Ocean4, Are you taking into consideration your cast times?

[FaileExperiment]

Please let Ocean4 turn out to be incorrect!

[Ocean4]

Of course. Cast times are less than that of GCD and I was using GCD's (because one can't recast until the GCD is over). I can do heavy simulations to find the true number of Stone III's and include the extra Assize and Fluid aura into the damage calculation if you wish, but note that the PPS will go up not down.

[SovereignAegis]

I feel like I am out DPSing a machinist as a scholar in the level 60 dungeon running for law tomestones.

At present with cleric stance I am hitting a consistent 1k per strike + all my DoT's. However the machinist whenever they attack something has staggeringly lower numbers and it is weird. YES THAT IS INCLUDING TURRET.


And if I hit 1k per strike with the 170 potency broil, a WHM with 210 (? It was above 200 I know that) potency stone 3 will hit even more.

[Musashidon]

guys don't forget brd/mch have the lowest damage on their weapons.

these are the best weapons for mch/brd

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/de9454ba13f/

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/28af3d6bc50/

65 damage

this is for tanks

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/a0edc9771df/

72 damage

this is healers

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/ae2adefe648/

100 magical damage

[LittleArrow]

Yeah and the whole damage differences are so bizarre to me. Why compensate healers dps when the comparison to mch there doesn't need to be any compensation? Lol

Healers are doing more damage than we are, and if not healers, look at other classes weapon damage.

I'm tired of this idea that we keep getting punished for having to do more. There needs to be a draw to this class not a deterrent.

[PocketFox]

I guess I'm one of those MCH that hasn't noticed a problem? I don't parse, and I'm only 57, but I've been running with a pretty set group, with SMN as the other dps, and while my AOE is pretty terrible compared to hers, I think I'm doing well on bosses. On a boss, I play my rotation this way:

Hot Shot -> Blood for Blood and Hawk's Eye -> Lead Shot -> Raging Strikes -> Reload -> Wildfire -> Split Shot -> Slug Shot -> Reassemble -> Rapid Fire -> Clean Shot -> Split Shot -> Slug Shot -> Clean Shot

I weave Gauss Round in as I can, usually starting just after I start my initial round of Shots. I tend to save Quick Reload until I get a natural proc from Split Shot (so that I can get a guaranteed 200 potency Clean Shot) but I've been wondering if it wouldn't be better to change that up. RNG can sometimes not be on my side, but again, I've been able to keep up with our SMN without trouble.

I do miss Second Wind though, so I definitely agree that MCH needs a self heal.

[Wizarus]

With 9 Energy Drain opener and Ruin 2 -> Broil upgrade, I really think SCH could outDPS MCH, it may barely win because of Raging Strikes.

[Gamer3427]

I do miss Second Wind though, so I definitely agree that MCH needs a self heal.

This is my main concern. As far as I'm aware, we MCH are the only class that doesn't have any capacity to self heal, (not counting potions obviously). This is fine enough for group stuff, but it means we have to be extra cautious when soloing content. Particularly since the closest thing we have to defensive skills in general are the slow skill from lancer and the heavy/bind and silence/stun skills, which are more of just brief delaying tactics for the most part. Our one real debuff is a measly 5% one that only lasts for 10 seconds. I love this class, but when my only real method of surviving when alone is to run in circles, it can be quite problematic since few pieces of content place enemies where they aren't near adds if you stray even a few feet away......

EDIT: As for what Ocean said above, I'd like to point out that pure DPSing healers can put out a lot of damage if they're using their offensive skills properly. Cleric Stance is a bit over powered in that regard, since a pure MND healer with top end gear will have more raw stats than a pure INT/STR/DEX DPS, (if I'm remembering stat comparisons correctly), and Cleric Stance changes all that to pure damage while giving it a stat buff that doesn't wear off. DPS in general can only surpass it due to use of combos and their own buffs, and even then it's a bit iffy after the DPS burst is over with and everything is on cooldown, while the Healer isn't limited by such in their primary attack skills. The only reason this isn't broken in normal gameplay is because if the Healers stay in Cleric Stance and DPS as much as the DPS themselves do, then people start dropping like flies.....